Strong lobbies are working flat out to abolish cash completely.
Everywhere in Europe and especially in the EU.
Today we are talking to a specialist on this subject who is doing all he can to save Switzerland
from this fate and to save this part of our freedom.
We welcome the delegate of "schweiz-macher" and President of the "Freiheitliche Bewegung Schweiz", Richard Koller.
Good afternoon, I'm delighted to be here - at the Federal Palace - and I think it's exciting what we're going to find out here.
Most people think that the abolition of cash is not an issue in Switzerland. What do you think about this?
So that's probably a mistake.
If we do not correct the error, we will very probably experience it bitterly.
Because the fact is, people don't feel that cash is being abolished directly - because it's not the politicians who are
abolishing cash, the politicians are simply not doing anything to really preserve cash,
but the economy is working on reducing cash.
We already see this at Christmas markets - and at other markets too - we see it at businesses and
bakery chains that suddenly stop accepting cash.
We see this with restaurants that also operate cashless.
Over time, the economy will dismantle and abolish cash, and this is also accelerating now with public
transport, so that cash will no longer be used there either.
So people who pay with cash will no longer be able to buy a ticket for public transport.
That's what's reducing our cash. And we have to stand up to that.
Then, of course, we also have international organizations such as the "Better than Cash Alliance".
And these were founded in 2012 by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, by the Ford Foundation, by
USAID and also by other important, large institutions.
And they have set themselves the goal of dismantling cash - in other words, dismantling it
worldwide - and replacing it with digital money.
It is interesting, and this speaks in Switzerland's favor, that our SECO - the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs - was not
involved in the founding in 2012, but started paying two million for the abolition of cash in 2012 and was also given the
task of transferring all technologies and know-how for digital money transfers - especially to emerging countries.
This actually shows that the abolition of cash is a goal in which Switzerland is at the forefront.
I think it would be a bit naïve to think that cash will not be abolished here in Switzerland.
That is why it is important that we can enshrine cash in the constitution in this way.
Why should cash actually be abolished?
So there are several reasons, but one very important one is the global financial situation.
The financial situation is such that the world is actually in debt.
Three times the annual population capacity that it can generate. And that can no longer be repaid.
This would mean that humanity would have to work for three years without consuming resources, without
eating, in order to pay off this mountain of debt.
And there will be a financial collapse at some point in the future.
It is no longer a question of if, but only when it will come. It will implode in this financial situation in the world.
And that is of course a reason for the elites to abolish cash, so that after this financial collapse, after it has all
collapsed, they can control the people and control the whole financial situation so that it is rebuilt in their interests.
Otherwise, of course, certain people would come together, groups, countries would come together and build it up on their own.
They wouldn't like that. After all, they are now buying up all these valuables or resources.
This means that all gold mines are being bought up, gold is being bought up, silver is being
bought up, agricultural land is being bought up.
In America, Bill Gates is now the largest agricultural landowner.
And that shows that this financial bubble is collapsing.
And this must be avoided at all costs, so that in the end there is still cash in circulation so that people
can still act for themselves and cannot be controlled.
And I think how bad it is can now be seen in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, which no longer have cash.
It is also possible to wage war today - for example Sweden, which still has less than 10% cash in circulation - you
wouldn't even have to invade them as a country, you could cut off their electricity or internet.
That would mean that within two or three weeks the country would be on the ground - economically - and
probably in civil war, because it would then be a question of resources, i.e. food, all of it.
And you can see how important it is to master digital technology, and cash would definitely be a bad thing.
Sweden and Norway are now also trying to turn it around, because they have realized what a risk they are running.
But it is no longer happening, even if they are now saying that the economy should have to accept cash again.
People don't have cash and cash is no longer being built up and they are really at a difficult point at the moment.
There is a law that prescribes the acceptance of notes and coins.
Why can cash still be refused?
Well, in Switzerland, Article 3 of the Currency Act (WZG) states that everyone must actually accept money
issued by the National Bank in banknotes without restriction.
However, this article is dispositive, i.e. it only applies when a lawsuit is filed.
For example, if a bakery writes "we don't accept cash" and the customer comes in and wants to buy something and
knows that they don't accept cash, then there will never be a contract, so there will never be a transaction.
And if a transaction has never taken place, then you cannot sue under this law.
And that is the problem with the dispositive law, that you cannot take legal action against it and therefore it is up to the economy
to decide for itself whether it wants to accept cash or not.
The popular initiative "Cash is freedom" has received a counter-proposal from the
Federal Council. What is the difference?
So we in the popular initiative are demanding that the Confederation must always
provide sufficient quantities of coins and notes.
And the Federal Council's counter-proposal now states that the National Bank is
responsible for ensuring that cash is in circulation.
And that is of course a huge discrepancy - so it's a little trick by the federal government - because the
problem that is now arising is that not all cash is the same.
Because by "paying cash" I actually mean not paying on credit, that is, not on account or somehow on a
promissory bill or something like that, but I pay cash.
And in French-Italian, "je paie cash" means "I pay cash", but that means I can also pay with a debit card .
It is therefore possible for the Confederation, with the designation that the National Bank must guarantee cash, to
have the trick of also being able to provide electronic cash and not come into conflict with the Federal Constitution.
That is why we cannot accept the federal government's direct counter-proposal as it
stands today - we still have a vote in March.
What would a digital currency of the future look like?
A digital currency of the future would probably be a mix between cryptocurrency and Twint.
In other words, it would only work via a digital end device. Today we know this from mobile phones.
This is a digital end device and the currency, i.e. the entire payment transaction process, would be processed via
a so-called wallet - i.e. via an exchange, a purse, a wallet - which would be on this digital end device.
And this digital terminal would communicate with the Swiss National Bank, I think.
Everyone would then only have a single account - there would be no more banks.
This would mean that if we want to buy something, we would first have to be at the place that is licensed.
Secondly, that we can buy what is still open to us - or what is available to us - and only
for the amount that is released to us, of course.
So we would be subject to absolute control.
Yes, you've already said something - what I wanted to ask now as a supplement: What dangers will we actually face without cash?
Yes, there are many dangers. So the biggest danger for me is expropriation through negative interest rates - or.
Christine Lagarde said in 2016 - you can read it in Blick , I think it was April 14, Blick wrote - that:
"The only reason why negative interest rates don't work is that we still have cash in circulation."
If, of course, there was no more cash in circulation, this would mean that people would not be able to defend themselves at all
if the National Bank suddenly said "we are now deducting 10% a year from every account because we need it for administration".
You could no longer use cash to buy something with other options.
That would then only be possible via digital currency. And that is the biggest danger for me.
So I think the negative interest rates, the expropriation would come.
Then, of course, there are other dangers.
So one major danger is of course the dependence - as I said before - on electricity and the internet.
So if something fails, payment transactions are immediately no longer possible.
Then there is the fact that we can no longer maintain crisis resilience .
This means that in crises - such as those now being experienced in Norway and Sweden - it would no longer be
possible to continue working due to the loss of cash.
That would mean that if we didn't have the Internet, the economy would lie idle. It would stop and no longer function.
But with cash we could at least continue to pay, or yes, the economy could continue to
exist and the greatest damage would be prevented.
That is another important point.
You keep hearing that this digital money will also make you totally monitorable. Is that true?
Yes, that's certainly the case.
So these Central Bank Digital Currencies , of course, have the advantage that they are stored on the digital devices
in the wallet and it can of course be monitored where you are, what you buy and how much you buy something for.
And that would lead to people being absolutely controllable.
In other words, similar to a social credit system as we know it from China - or.
From this point of view, this is of course a major danger.
But this is something that I think the people are already somewhat aware of, that this could follow.
Yes, good, thank you for that. What have we actually already achieved in Switzerland on this topic?
So we've come a long way in Switzerland, because thanks to the fact that we launched the popular initiatives - i.e. "Cash is
freedom" - we're now at the point where it's a question of which version of a cash
guarantee should be included in the constitution.
We will of course fight to ensure that it is our version - with coins and notes - so that we can also be sure
that it will not be circumvented by a trick at the end.
We are much further ahead than the rest of Europe and that is of course also important for Europe.
Because if we in Switzerland manage to get this into the constitution, then it won't be so easy to
abolish cash in Europe either, because there would be an immediate flight of money to Switzerland.
If Germany were to say: "We have no more cash", everyone would immediately withdraw their cash and take it
to Switzerland, because the cash would be safe there.
So of course we are in a comfortable position in Switzerland compared to other countries.
And is that enough to get the cash in Switzerland?
No, of course that's not enough, just the constitution.
As I said at the beginning, the economy will abolish cash, and that requires us humans to pay
with cash so that the economy cannot abolish it.
So that Migros and Coop don't suddenly just put up these self-cash-out machines - or whatever they're called - where
everyone can only pay digitally, but we still have to pay a lot in cash, even in restaurants and
everywhere, so that this cash volume remains high.
Thorsten Hens, financial economist and professor at the University of Zurich, has stated quite clearly that "with 15% of all
financial transactions in cash, cash can no longer be saved".
He said this in an interview with SRF in 2020, and that shows that we are already very close to this
threshold today - at 25% - and we have to stand up to it.
So I'll be happy if people really start paying with cash again.
That's also the next question, what can the population do, i.e. what else needs to happen and what can we do?
So, these are perhaps two or three points that are now essential.
Essentially, there will be another National Council debate on Thomas Burgherr's proposal in March.
In addition to our popular initiative, he also wants acceptance in the economy - so it's not the obligation
to accept, it's an acceptance, general acceptance - which he wants in the constitution.
We will now support them. As "schweiz-macher", we have created a petition so that a large number of people can now sign it.
I would recommend this - www.schweiz-macher.ch - you can sign the petition there.
We have also persuaded the age associations - the large age associations with 280,000 members - to support
us in ensuring that this proposal is adopted by the National Assembly and the Council of States.
Then, of course, there is the fact that we have to go to the vote.
So we are very happy if we are really supported financially now, because we can't do it without funding.
The others have billions - so we really need a lot of money so that we have a chance in the vote and the most
important part, however, is that the population really goes and walks around with cash and also pays in cash.
Yes, from my side, I would really like to take up this moment again now and ask all our citizens to pay with cash again as
often as possible in future - perhaps also to prefer stores that still accept cash to those that no longer
do, because this issue is very, very, very important, that we can keep cash in Switzerland.
It is important for our children and important for us that we can continue to live in freedom. Thank you very much!
So thank you very much, Mr. Koller, you've convinced me.
I will continue to pay with cash, because I want to keep the cash so that it stays with us.
And thank you very much for your commitment, Mr. Koller, and we wish you all the best for your future work.
Thank you very much and good luck with your work. Thank you.