WEBVTT

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Kla.TV: Dokotela Haug, ngiyabonga kakhulu
ngokuthatha isikhathi ukukhuluma nathi namuhla.

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Ungumbhali wencwadi ethi Das Deutsche Reich
1871 bis heute (Umbuso WaseJalimane kusukela

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ngo-1871 kuze kube namuhla). Kuze kube namuhla?

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Dkt Haug, kunempikiswano enkulu mayelana nesimangalo sokuthi
iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane ayiyona izwe, ukuthi inayo

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kuphela iBasic Law kodwa ayinayo imithethosisekelo,
ukuthi ayinayo inkontileka yokuthula, ukuthi ayinazo

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imingcele kazwelonke ecacisiwe nokuthi ayinazizimiso zobukhosi.

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AmaJalimane nawo awanazwe.

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Njengomuntu ophikisayo enkulumweni evamile, sicela uchazele
ababukeli ngokufingqiwe nangokucacile umbono wakho wokuthi ukuba

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khona okuqhubekayo kweReich yaseJalimane kusho ukuthini kuwe
nokuthi lezi zindaba eziphikisanayo nezixoxwa

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kabanzi zihambisana kanjani nokuba khona
okuqhubekayo kweReich yaseJalimane, ngokokuqonda kwakho.

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Matthes Haug: Okokuqala, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngomemo, Mnu. Matten.

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Yebo, ngibhale incwadi ethi 1871 kuze kube Namuhla,
ngoba iMbuso yaseJalimane yasungulwa ngo-1871 eHall of

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Mirrors eVersailles ngaphansi kukaBismarck noMbusi uWilhelm I.

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Yamukelwa, yamukelwa ngamazwe angama-46 abamele awo
ababekhona lapho, futhi yamukelwa iMbuso yaseJalimane.

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Futhi lo Mbuso wamaJalimane awukaze uqedwe.

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Akunakuxazululwa nhlobo, ngoba lokhu kuzodinga imithetho efakwe
nakwisimiso somthethosisekelo sango-1871,

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nemihlahlandlela yokuthi, isibonelo,
isimiso somthethosisekelo singaxazululwa kanjani.

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Lo mthethosisekelo awukaze uchithwe.

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Kwabe sekuba neMpi Yezwe Yokuqala, kwathi ngemva
kwalokho empeleni kwaba ukumiswa kwesikhashana kwempi kuphela.

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Akukaze kube nenkontileka yokuthula yangempela.
Isivumelwano saseVersailles sasingeyona inkontileka yokuthula.

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Ngakho-ke kwakuyisivumelwano sokuthula
sesikhashana kuphela. Ngakho-ke, iMbuso

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yaseJalimane iyaqhubeka nokuba khona kuze kube namuhla.

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Ungayixube neThird Reich. Lezi zimbili zivame ukudideka.
IThird Reich nombuso waseJalimane wango-1871 azihlangene nhlobo.

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Kunalokho, kungalandelelwa ngokuphelele kuleli mbuso, eliqhubekile
ukuba likhona ngaphandle kokuzonda kuze kube namuhla.

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Kla.TV: Ngokombono wakho, yiziphi amathuba
nemiphumela evela ngenxa yokuthi i-German

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Reich iyaqhubeka nokuba khona kuze kube namuhla?

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Ngabe kukhona amathuba akhethekile
abantu bomphakathi ekubumbeni ikusasa?

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MH: Kukhona amathuba amahle kakhulu. Futhi
ngokombono wezomthetho kuphela, lokhu akuyona

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imibono yami, kodwa kuwumqondo weqiniso lezomthetho.

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Ngakho-ke, ngokombono wezomthetho kuphela,
umthethosisekelo ka-1871 nawo uyasebenza.

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Ngoba lo Mbuso waseJalimane usasesimweni sempi nanamuhla,
ngokomqondo nje. Kuphela sesimweni sokumisa impi, okungukuthi.

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Futhi kuphela lo Mbuso waseJalimane
ongakwazi ukusayina futhi isivumelwano sokuthula.

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I-Republic yaseFederal yayingakabi khona ngaleso sikhathi.

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Ngokucacile, yasungulwa kuphela ngomhlaka 3
Januwari 1950, ngemva kokuthunyelwa

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kwencwadi yokugcina yokuvunywa kubantu baseBrithani.

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Ngakho-ke, umuntu angacabanga ukuthi yasungulwa ngo-1949.

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Ngicwaningile konke lokhu ngokucophelela
kakhulu futhi ngakwethula ngokunembile kakhulu.

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Ngithakasile kuphela emaqinisweni, akukho
okunye. Ngaleyo ndlela, ngingusosayensi ngempela.

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Ngakho-ke iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe
ayisungulwanga kuze kube ngomhlaka 3 Januwari 1950.

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Ngakho-ke akunakwenzeka ukusayina isivumelwano sokuthula, njengoba
iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseJalimane ingakaze ibe yisitha empini.

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Futhi isivumelwano sokuthula
kumele silandele impi ngokuphoqelekile.

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Futhi lokhu kudinga abamele abavumelekile be-Reich yaseJalimane.

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Kla.TV: Futhi laba bamele abavumelekile
babengekho nhlobo kulezi zingxoxo zokuthula.

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Kukhona into ebizwa ngokuthi isivumelwano se-2 plus
4. Ingabe konke bekungeyona into, njengoba besho?

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MH: NgesiJalimane, "Für den Katz" akusho "ngokwekati".

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Hhayi-ke, yindaba ehlukile leyo.

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Abamele isivumelwano sokuthula abazange babe khona.

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Lokho bekungaba uMbusi uWilliam I noma uWilliam II.

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Okokuqala kwalandelwa nguWilliam II.

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Ngakho lokho bekungaba ummeleli osemthethweni.

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Nokho, kamuva wahamba waya ekuxoshweni, ngakho
wayengekho lapha futhi wayengeke atholakale.

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Futhi iRiphabhulikhi yaseWeimar yamemezelwa nje ngokuphikisana
nomthethosisekelo osesebenzayo ka-1871. Lokhu akunakwenzeka

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ngaphansi komthetho wamazwe ngamazwe nomthethosisekelo.

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Lokhu kusho ukuthi kwakungekho mmeli
osesimthethweni wombuso wamaJalimane wango-1871.

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Laba babeyizishoshovu zezepolitiki nabantu
ababengenalo igunya nhlobo lokusayina

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isivumelwano sokuthula seMbuso yaseJalimane ngo-1871.

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Baxoxa ngakho-ke, futhi manje sizothatha indlela
ehlukile emfushane, iSivumelwano Sezimbili Plus Ezine.

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Ngokucacile, kubizwa ngokuthi Isivumelwano Sezine Plus
Ezimbili. Yilokho ababambisene nabo abakubiza ngakho.

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Ngakho-ke, ama-Allies amane, iSoviet Union, iNgilandi, iFrance
ne-USA, kanye ne-FRG, iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane, ne-GDR.

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Bekumele ukuthi lezi zisungule iJalimane ehlangene
ngaphansi kwalesi sivumelwano. Lokho bekungaba yinto engavunywa.

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Ngale ndlela, iJalimane ehlangene akazange ifezeke.

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Ukuhlanganiswa kweJalimane kusho
iJalimane lonke njengoba kwakunjalo ngo-1871.

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Lokho kuwumanyano oluphelele.

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IGermany yahlukaniswa yaba izingxenye
ezintathu ngemva kweMpi Yezwe Yesibili.

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IRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseFederal yaseJalimane, okwathi kamuva
kwaba yiRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseDemokhrasi yaseJalimane,

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noma iJalimane Ephakathi ngokunembile. Futhi izifunda
ezaziphethwe yiJalimane YaseMpumalanga ngaphansi kwePoland.

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Futhi akukho okushintshile ngalokho kuze kube namuhla.

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Ngakho-ke iJalimane ehlangene yayingeke yakhiwe yi-FRG ngengxenye
eyodwa kulezi ezintathu, noma ngisho nangengxenye eziningi.

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Ngakho-ke bahlala bethi lesi Sivumelwano
se-Four Plus Two, kanye neSivumelwano se-Two Plus

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Four, sizoba isivumelwano sokuthula esingaphelele.

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Akukho okuthiwa isivumelwano sokuthula esingaphelele.
Kubhalwe ngokusobala ukuthi isivumelwano sokuthula.

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Ekugcineni, lesi sivumelwano asizange
siqinisekiswe ngazo zonke izinhlangothi ezazibophezele.

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Kuphela ngeRussia. Okuthakazelisa kakhulu.

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I-Russia kuphela eqinisekisile lesi sivumelwano.

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Futhi uGenscher, owayenguNgqongqoshe Wezangaphandle
weRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseJalimane ngaleso

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sikhathi, akazange ayiqinisekise ngokuhambisana nemithetho.

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Kufanele usayine lapha ngokugcwele,
okuyikho akwenzile esivumelwaneni esikhulu.

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Lapho kufika ukuqinisekiswa, wabeka kuphela izimpawu
zokuqala zika-G. Akukho igama lokuqala, akukho okunye.

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Futhi ngokungqondile, lokho kuphikisana nemithetho.

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Ngakho-ke lesi sivumelwano asizange
siqinisekiswe ngokusemthethweni. Yilokho okubalulekile.

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Kla.TV: Dokotela Haug, uma ngikuqondile kahle,
umthethosisekelo ka-1871 usasebenza namuhla.

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Kodwa-ke, iyini iMthetho Oyisisekelo? Inini ukubaluleka kwayo?

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MH: Umthetho Osekelayo usekelwe
eSivumelwaneni saseHague. Lona ngumthetho wamazwe

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ngamazwe. Ulawula isimo sempi nezimo zasemva kwempi.

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Kla.TV: HLKO kusho ukuthini? MH:
Isivumelwano saseHague mayelana nempi emhlabeni

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Ingabe umhlali kumele anikeze abahlali umthethosisekelo?

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Ukuze kugcinwe ukuhleleka, ukuziphatha
okuhle nokuthula. Yilokho okuchazwe ngakho.

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Yingakho ebizwa ngokuthi iMthetho Esisekelweni
weRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane, hhayi iMthetho

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Esisekelweni weRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane.

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Ngakho-ke yilona ilungelo lomhlali. Indaba emfushane.

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Ubaba wami wayemazi uCarlo Schmidt,
okuthiwa ungomunye wabasunguli boMthetho Osemqoka.

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Wayeyindoda endala ebandleni lobudlelwano lukayise.

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Futhi, esenomdlandla kancane ngenxa
yemigubho, waphosa amanye imfihlo.

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Wathi, uyazi, sasivunyelwe ukwengeza amachashazi
namakoma. Konke okunye kwakusele sekumiswe kusengaphambili.

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Ama-Allies ngokwemvelo bafuna ukubumba lo mthethosisekelo
ngokwezintshisekelo zabo. Lokho kuyabonakala, vele.

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Ngakho-ke lokhu kuyisitatimende esiqondile
sika Carlo Schmidt mayelana nobaba njengofakazi.

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Futhi kusekhona okushiwo eSigabeni 120 soMthetho
Osekelayo namuhla ukuthi uhulumeni kazwelonke ukhokha

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izindleko zokuhlala. Lokho kusenguqulweni yamanje yango-2025.

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Lokhu kusho ukuthi uma kufanele ukhokhe
izindleko zokuhlala, nathi siyaxakeka.

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Asinayo imthethosisekelo.

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Ngoba, ngokwezindinganiso zomthetho wamazwe omhlaba,
izwe elifanele linezinhlalakahle zabantu, imingcele

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yezwe, iziphathimandla zikahulumeni nomthethosisekelo.

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Ngokucacile, iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe Ayigcwalisi Noma
Yiliphi Lalawa Mazinto Amathathu. Ayiyona isizwe, ngoba

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bonke izakhamuzi zayo bangabantu base-Reich yaseJalimane.

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Labo abangakwazi ukufakazela lokhu ngomthombo wabo wobuzwe.

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Ngakho-ke iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe uqobo
ayinayo umthetho ovumelekile wokuba yizwe.

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Futhi imingcele kazwelonke nayo ayikho. Ngoba imingcele
kazwelonke yangempela yasungulwa yiMbuso YaseJalimane ngo-1871.

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Ngakho-ke iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe yasungulwa njengesakhiwo
sokuphatha, indawo yezomnotho. Ngamandla ababephethe ukubusa.

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Futhi amandla abusa ngokungemthetho
akanalo ilungelo lokumisa izwe elisha kuyo.

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Ngakho-ke, ngokombono womthetho wamazwe
ngamazwe, iMbuso yaseJalimane yango-1871 ayishintshile.

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Kla.TV: Ngakho-ke, uma ngikuqonda kahle, iRiphabhulikhi
Yezwe LaseJalimane iyisakhiwo sokuphatha esisungulwe, masithi,

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ngamandla aphumelele ukuze kugcinwe ukuhleleka komphakathi.

10:29.260 --> 10:31.499
Lokho kungiholela embuzweni wami olandelayo.

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Ngoba abahloli beqiniso abathi njalo bavame ukuphikisa
ukuthi umbuso neziphathimandla zawo kumele babe izinkampani.

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Kuvame ukushiwo ukuthi iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe
YaseJalimane iyinkampani enomkhawulo noma okuthile

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okufana nalokho, inkampani. Ukuze ikwazi ukwenza izinto.

10:46.048 --> 10:55.270
Ukuze kungabi nokulahlekelwa kwenkululeko noma
sobu-mbuso obuhambisana nakho. Ukuze kungabi nokulahlekelwa.

10:55.270 --> 11:06.521
Kodwa uyibona kanjani? Ingabe manje lokhu, ingabe le nto esiyiyo
ngokuyisisekelo nje—masithi inkampani—futhi inekhadi lobu,

11:06.521 --> 11:12.125
ingabe lokho kuyisibonakaliso salokhu okwakhiwe ngokuphatha?

11:12.125 --> 11:17.348
Futhi ukuthi asiyona ngempela izwe langempela, nokuthi
iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseJalimane nayo ayiyona nhlobo

11:17.348 --> 11:20.100
izwe langempela, kodwa iyiyunithi kuphela yokuphatha?

11:20.100 --> 11:21.920
Ingabe lokho kuyisibonakaliso salokhu?

11:21.920 --> 11:26.000
MH: Lokho ngempela kuwuphawu walokho.

11:26.000 --> 11:32.250
Ngaleso sikhathi, ngo-1990, ngesikhathi sokubuyiselwa ndawonye
okwakubizwa kanjalo, okungazange kwenzeke, uNgqongqoshe

11:32.250 --> 11:38.554
Wezangaphandle waseMelika noNgqongqoshe Wezangaphandle
waseJalimane, okungukuthi waseSoviet Union, basebenzisa ilungelo

11:38.554 --> 11:44.963
labo lokubeka ukubekwa eceleni kwama-Allied basusa uMthetho
Osekelayo ngaphandle kokuwufaka esikhundleni, basusa umkhakha

11:44.963 --> 11:48.460
wokusetshenziswa, Isigaba 23, lapho lokhu kwakuchazwe khona.

11:48.460 --> 11:52.620
Umthetho ngamunye udinga umkhawulo
ocacisiwe wokusetshenziswa kwawo.

11:52.620 --> 11:59.400
I-GDR yayinombuso. Futhi lokhu kwakusikiwe
ekhoneni elilodwa, sengathi kuyaphikisa iphasiphothi.

11:59.400 --> 12:06.039
Lokhu kusho ukuthi kusukela ngalesi sikhathi, mhla ziyi-18
kuJulayi 1990, lapho lokhu kwenzeka khona, noma ngokunembile mhla

12:06.039 --> 12:11.500
ziyi-17 kuJulayi 1990, phakathi kobusuku mhla ziyi-18
kuJulayi 1990, iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane

12:11.500 --> 12:15.080
neRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseGDR zamemezelwa ukuthi azisebenzi.

12:15.080 --> 12:17.606
Akekho owayenesimiso sobukhosi manje.

12:17.606 --> 12:24.154
Ukusukela kumgcini wezimali weqembu ngalinye
kuqhubeke, akekho owayenamandla ozimele,

12:24.154 --> 12:27.800
amandla okukhuluma egameni le-FRG noma le-GDR.

12:27.800 --> 12:33.700
Futhi lokhu kwagcinwa kufihlwe kubantu baseJalimane.

12:33.700 --> 12:38.113
Futhi ngalokho, kwakungathi kusemoyeni nje.

12:38.113 --> 12:44.793
IRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseJalimane yayingasasetshenziswa
ngabasebenzi, njengoba Amandla Abambisene, ikakhulukazi i-United

12:44.793 --> 12:49.692
States, elinye lamandla aseNtshonalanga
abaphumelele empini, asuse amandla ayo obukhosi.

12:49.692 --> 12:52.600
Ngakho-ke yayingasasetshenziswa ngaleyo ndlela.

12:52.600 --> 12:59.652
Kanti-ke uGenscher noKohl babhalisa
iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe LaseJalimane eDelaware njengenkampani.

12:59.652 --> 13:06.612
Futhi uGenscher wasusa i-BRD
eSivumelwaneni se-UN wabhala eJalimane.

13:06.612 --> 13:11.980
Futhi njengenkampani. Bakubhaliswe njengenkampani eDelaware.

13:11.980 --> 13:19.453
Ungakubheka ohlelweni lwamazwe ngamazwe lolwazi lwamafayela
ezinkampani. Libizwa ngokuthi UPIC. Ngakho-ke ungakubheka.

13:19.453 --> 13:27.455
Futhi kuthiwa lapho, uMongameli Steinmeier weRiphabhulikhi Yezwe,
inombolo yenkampani, ikheli lenkampani, ngakho zonke

13:27.455 --> 13:35.840
ziyizinkampani ngokubanzi, ngoba kwakudingeka abhalise uKohl
njengenkampani, ngoba isisekelo somthethosisekelo sasusiwe.

13:35.840 --> 13:41.713
Kla.TV: Dokotela Haug, sibuyela kuleli khadi lobu sikhombisi.

13:41.713 --> 13:51.110
Ngakho-ke uma le khadi lobu sikhombisi lifana
nje nekhadi lobu sikhombisi lenkampani

13:51.110 --> 13:57.952
yaseJalimane, iJalimane Company, yini imbangela yalokho?

13:57.952 --> 14:06.395
MH: Kukhona imithetho yamazwe ngamazwe ethi, ngokomgomo,
siyiziboshwa. Kuze kube manje, empeleni

14:06.395 --> 14:15.125
besiyiziboshwa, mhlawumbe sinenkululeko encane
kunaleyo esinayo manje ejele, kodwa sinalelo zinga.

14:15.125 --> 14:20.392
Futhi kunemithetho ebeka ukuthi laba bantu
kumele banikezwe idokhumenti yokuhamba.

14:20.392 --> 14:23.866
Ikhadi lobu sikhombi noma idokhumenti yokuhamba.

14:23.866 --> 14:26.729
Ikhadi lobuuntu libonisa ukuthi
singabasebenzi. Bengivame ukusebenza endaweni ethile

14:26.729 --> 14:28.185
ngezikhathi zeholide, isibonelo eDaimler.

14:28.185 --> 14:35.993
Bengihlala ngisebenza endaweni ethile ngezikhathi
zeholide, eDaimler noma kwenye indawo, futhi wawunikezwa ikhadi

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lobu sazi yiDaimler ngoba wawuqashwe lapho ngaleso sikhathi.

14:40.232 --> 14:48.603
Futhi lokhu kufana ngqo neshishini lokuhweba
elaziwa ngokuthi iRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane,

14:48.603 --> 14:52.899
elikhishwa khona amakhadi obu-identithi kubantu.

14:52.899 --> 14:56.320
Futhi lokho kusobala ukuthi siyizisebenzi nje kuphela.

14:56.320 --> 14:57.780
Kla.TV: Futhi-ke engenazwe.

14:57.780 --> 14:59.296
MH: Futhi engenazwe.

14:59.296 --> 15:07.683
Kla.TV: Ngakho-ke, uma manje sisenayo inkampani eyodwa kuphela
eRiphabhulikhi Yezwe yaseJalimane futhi singenaso

15:07.683 --> 15:17.119
umthethosisekelo wangempela, kodwa sinomyalelo wokuphatha kuphela
wokugcina ukuthula nohlelo lomphakathi, ake ngikubeke kanje:

15:17.119 --> 15:24.532
yiziphi amathuba okubuyela kuReich langempela laseJalimane,
kumthethosisekelo wangempela osasebenza

15:24.532 --> 15:32.680
nanamuhla, anikezwa abantu baseJalimane noma izakhamuzi
zaseJalimane? Ingabe lokhu kuyabaluleka nhlobo?

15:32.680 --> 15:39.000
Ingabe kuwamaphepha amadala agcwele uthuli kuphela,
noma kunento ebalulekile okufanele isitshele namuhla?

15:39.000 --> 15:40.520
MH: Lokho kubaluleke kakhulu.

15:40.520 --> 15:45.871
Impela, kubalulekile kakhulu ukufinyelela esimweni
sokuthula, kanye nesimo sempi, ngokusebenzisa

15:45.871 --> 15:50.140
isivumelwano sokuthula. Lokho kuyisidingo sangaphambilini.

15:50.140 --> 15:59.664
Khona-ke, ngokombono womthetho wamazwe ngamazwe, sizophinde
sibe yizwe, izwe elamukelwe. Futhi sizophinde sibe namalungelo

15:59.664 --> 16:04.720
ezwe, esingenawo njengamanje eRiphabhulikhi Yezwe YaseJalimane.

16:04.720 --> 16:07.840
Ngempela asinalo izwe, sonke singamaJalimane.

16:07.840 --> 16:10.560
Kungase kuzwakale kungakholakali, kodwa kuyiqiniso.

16:10.560 --> 16:16.980
Khona-ke sizoba futhi namalungelo omthethosisekelo
kanye nobukhosi ngaphansi komthetho wamazwe ngamazwe.

16:16.980 --> 16:23.000
Futhi lo mthethosisekelo ungase ubonakale
umdala, osungulwe ngo-1871, futhi mhlawumbe

16:23.000 --> 16:26.425
usuphelelwe yisikhathi kancane, kodwa akunjalo.

16:26.425 --> 16:28.960
Kwaba nezimpumelelo ezinkulu.

16:28.960 --> 16:35.226
Futhi lapho, isibonelo, bakhuluma
nangesimo sentela eMbuso WaseJalimane.

16:35.226 --> 16:39.365
Kwakukhona intela yokuthengisa engu-4% kuphela.

16:39.365 --> 16:44.152
Bekungekho nhlobo intela yemali engenayo,
kwakukhona kuphela izinga elincane lentela

16:44.152 --> 16:47.300
yemali engenayo ngaphezu komkhawulo othile.

16:47.300 --> 16:53.900
Lokho kusho ukuthi, ake ngikunike isibonelo, uma kukhona
i-VAT engu-4% kuphela, ake sithathe amanani kaphethiloli.

16:53.900 --> 17:00.681
Uma sikhuluma ngamanani wanamuhla, ngine-diesel cishe
ngo-1.70, ungazibala wena: uma une-4% kuphela ye-VAT,

17:00.681 --> 17:05.160
amanani kaphethiloli ngempela ahlukile ngokuphelele futhi.

17:05.160 --> 17:11.395
Namuhla kukhona ingxenye yentela ecishe ibe ngama-80 cents,
ikakhulukazi kukaphethiloli, futhi mina nginezinga

17:11.395 --> 17:17.580
eliphansi kakhulu, cishe izikhathi ezinhlanu,
ngakho-ke ngisele cishe ngama-70 cents entengo kaphethiloli.

17:17.580 --> 17:24.258
Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi lokhu
kuyisibonelo esisodwa nje esibonisa ukuthi empeleni

17:24.258 --> 17:28.133
kunikeza izinzuzo ezinkulu kubantu baseJalimane.

17:28.133 --> 17:33.360
Futhi kunjalo, kukhuluma nangokwezezimali, okucacile.

17:33.360 --> 17:39.355
Ngakho-ke, ngaleso sikhathi, umhlomuli
wemhlalaphansi wayenesisilinganiso sama-euro angu-3 000

17:39.355 --> 17:43.060
ngenyanga, isibonelo, lapho kushintshwa kwaba ama-euro.

17:43.060 --> 17:51.000
Ngicabanga ukuthi umtholi wemhlomulo ojwayelekile akanankinga
ngalokhu; abanye ngempela bathola okuningi, kodwa bangabambalwa.

17:51.000 --> 17:58.503
Uma ungathola umhlomulo wokuthatha umhlalaphansi ofanele lapha
ngaphandle kokukhokha intela enkulu, lokho nakho kuyinkinga

17:58.503 --> 18:02.100
enkulu kithi, uma nje ubheka abaqoqa amabhodlela abaningi, njll.

18:02.100 --> 18:04.920
Ngakho-ke lokho kunenzuzo eziningi.

18:04.920 --> 18:09.793
Singakwazi ukukhuluma ngakho eminye imizuzu engamashumi
amathathu, mayelana nezinzuzo—empeleni, kunezinzuzo kuphela.

18:09.793 --> 18:14.900
Kodwa ngingathanda nje ukukhuluma
ngalolu hlelo olulodwa olubalulekile.

18:14.900 --> 18:21.425
Kla.TV: Manje-ke ngomunye umbuzo. Ngakho-ke uma iRiphabhulikhi
Yezwe YaseJalimane empeleni iyinkampani nje kuphela, ingabe

18:21.425 --> 18:24.835
ibhaliswe njengenkampani, inkampani enomkhawulo noma yini?

18:24.835 --> 18:29.120
MH: Ayibhaliswanga njenge nkampani enomkhawulo,
ibhaliswe nje njengenkampani. Kla.TV: Ibhaliswe njengenkampani.

18:29.120 --> 18:44.546
Futhi sinemithetho yasekhaya kuphela, isakhiwo esihlela nje
ukuphila kwethu ndawonye, kodwa asinayo imthethosisekelo.

18:44.546 --> 18:49.240
Kuthiwani ngesikweletu sikazwelonke esesabekayo esibhekene naso?

18:49.240 --> 18:51.680
Ingabe empeleni zibalulekile kithi-ke?

18:51.680 --> 19:01.133
Akuyona yini leyo ndaba yenkampani, hhayi
yabahlali, izakhamuzi zangempela zaseJalimane?

19:01.133 --> 19:04.146
Kuyini lokho? Ingabe kunento yokwenza nakho?

19:04.146 --> 19:09.653
MH: Lo mbuzo muhle kakhulu. Sibuyele emkhakheni wezezimali.

19:09.653 --> 19:16.220
Ishubhu kazwelonke noma izikweletu zale nkampani
yokuhweba azikho ebhizinisini loMbuso waseJalimane.

19:16.220 --> 19:20.420
Azikho nje. Ngokomqondo, asisekho.

19:20.420 --> 19:26.620
Abakhokhi bentela baseJalimane kumele bakhokhe
phakathi kuka-€10,000 no-€15,000 ngonyaka

19:26.620 --> 19:31.560
ngezintshisekelo kuphela, ngenxa yale nani yenzalo embi kakhulu.

19:31.560 --> 19:34.600
Ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kungaba
usizo olukhulu kakhulu kuwo wonke umuzi.

19:34.600 --> 19:40.661
Futhi lezi zikweletu, impela, azikho ezingqondweni
zoMbuso waseJalimane, ngoba uMbuso waseJalimane wawucebile

19:40.661 --> 19:45.280
futhi ungaphinde ube ncebo uma izinto zilawulwa kahle.

19:45.280 --> 19:53.951
Kla.TV: Kuhle. Manje sekunjalo. UMongameli wase-US
uDonald Trump nohulumeni wakhe banomuzwa omkhulu

19:53.951 --> 19:58.705
wokuzwela inkululeko nokuzimela kwabantu baseYurophu.

19:58.705 --> 20:01.993
Muva nje kakhulu eNgqungqutheleni Yokuphepha yaseMunich.

20:01.993 --> 20:06.419
UVance wayephinde wakhuluma ngamandla amakhulu
esekela inkululeko yezindaba kanye nazo zonke lezi

20:06.419 --> 20:09.460
zinto nokwethulwa kwedemokhrasi nokunye okunjalo.

20:09.460 --> 20:17.649
Ngokubona kwakho, yiziphi izinyathelo okufanele zithathwe
nguhulumeni kaTrump ukuze iJalimane nabantu baseJalimane bakwazi

20:17.649 --> 20:23.421
ukufinyelela ukuthula okufanayo kanye
nesivumelwano sokuthula, ukuze bakwazi ukubuyisa

20:23.421 --> 20:27.446
inkululeko yabo nobukhosi babo futhi babe yizwe futhi?

20:27.446 --> 20:35.580
Ngakho-ke yonke le milinganiselo, eniyilahle
ngokusobala phakathi nomlando, njengoba nisanda kuchaza.

20:35.580 --> 20:38.140
Kumele uTrump enzeni?

20:38.140 --> 20:44.164
MH: Ngakho-ke, ngokukhethekile, abameli
abavumelekile boMbuso waseJalimane ka-1871,

20:44.164 --> 20:47.600
abakhethwa ngabantu ekhethweni likademokhrasi.

20:47.600 --> 20:50.797
Ngokwami, angiyena umsekeli omkhulu wamaqembu.

20:50.797 --> 20:57.540
Ungaphinde uhlele ukhetho lwakho siqu,
ukuze ukwazi ukuvota umuntu ofuna ukuba khona.

20:57.540 --> 21:02.860
Futhi, vele, ama-Allies kumele
bahlale phansi etafuleni noma kunjalo.

21:02.860 --> 21:08.033
Ngakho-ke bonke abalingani abane. IFrance ayidlali indima enkulu.

21:08.033 --> 21:11.673
IRashiya neMelika ngokwemvelo zidlala indima ebaluleke kakhulu.

21:11.673 --> 21:18.547
Futhi lapha, kunjalo, kumele kwenzeke izingxoxo
eziqondile mayelana nokubuyela ngesinyathelo

21:18.547 --> 21:22.980
ngesinyathelo eMbuso yaseJalimane yedemokhrasi yango-1871.

21:22.980 --> 21:29.014
Lo mthethosisekelo ka-1871, owakhishwa ngo-Ephreli 1871,
wakhethwa ngokudemokhrasi phakathi

21:29.014 --> 21:36.919
kwezinhlangothi ezahlukene: iCentre Party, eyayiyisibonelo
sangaphambilini se-CDU, kanye ne-SPD eyayivele ikhona.

21:36.919 --> 21:39.005
Bese nabo bavunyelwa ukuvota eMpumalanga yeJalimane.

21:39.005 --> 21:43.700
Futhi yamukelwa ngobuningi
obukhulu, lo mthethosisekelo wamukelwa.

21:43.700 --> 21:48.600
Inkosi yayingummeleli nje kuphela emhlabeni
wangaphandle. Njengomphathiswa wezangaphandle.

21:48.600 --> 21:51.080
Wayengenalungelo elikhulu noma yini enjalo.

21:51.080 --> 21:55.240
Kucatshangwa ukuthi kuzovela umbuso
wobukhosi, bese umuntu ezihlukanisa nombusi.

21:55.240 --> 21:58.360
Kuyumbuso wobukhosi osekwe kumthethosisekelo.

21:58.360 --> 22:03.166
Kodwa lapho inkosi, njengoba ngishilo,
ingumlomo wokuxhumana nomhlaba wangaphandle.

22:03.166 --> 22:06.726
Futhi konke okusele kunqunywa ngokufanayo ngokwezombusazwe.

22:06.726 --> 22:09.680
E-Reichstag, njengoba sisenayo nanamuhla, ngendlela.

22:09.680 --> 22:13.346
Reichstag, akubizwa ngokuthi
iReichstag eBerlin ngaphandle kwesizathu.

22:13.346 --> 22:23.940
Abamele beqiniso beReichstag bazophinde babhale izichibiyelo
zomthetho, banqume iziqondiso, njll. ezinqubweni zedemokhrasi.

22:23.940 --> 22:28.860
Ngakho-ke akudingeki ukhathazeke ukuthi
uzobuyiselwa emuva ezikhathini zobumnyama noma yini enjalo.

22:28.860 --> 22:32.100
Ngisho nangaleso sikhathi,
kwakulawulwa ngendlela edemokhrasi kakhulu.

22:32.100 --> 22:41.509
Kla.TV: Yebo, ngakho-ke, uma ngiqonda kahle, uMongameli uDonald
Trump kuzomele aqinisekise, uma ekhathazekile ngenkululeko yabantu

22:41.509 --> 22:51.286
baseYurophu, ukuthi, isibonelo, laba bamele be-Reich yaseJalimane
bafike etafuleni futhi kuxoxisanwe ngesivumelwano sokuthula.

22:51.286 --> 22:53.240
Futhi bekungabe esekuphi okunye okwakumele akwenze?

22:53.240 --> 23:02.800
MH: Yebo, impela, isimo esibalulekile
eJalimane ukuthi ikakhulu sithathwe yi-USA.

23:02.800 --> 23:08.646
Kukhona izisekelo zempi ezingaphezu
kuka-30, izisekelo zempi ezinkulu lapha.

23:08.646 --> 23:12.600
Inani lamasosha maduzane lizodlula elamaSosha aseBrithani.

23:12.600 --> 23:16.286
Ngakho-ke awukwazi ukusho ukuthi asimatasa.

23:16.286 --> 23:21.879
Sithintekile ngempumelelo. Ungakubona lokhu
ezisekelweni eziningi zempi. Akukho okushintshile.

23:21.879 --> 23:26.300
Lokhu kubizwa ngokuthi iMilitary Act, esasebenza
nanamuhla. Futhi ifakiwe kuGazethi yoMthetho Kazwelonke.

23:26.300 --> 23:32.340
Ngicwaningile konke lokhu
ngokucophelela. Ngakho-ke ngifana nomole.

23:32.340 --> 23:37.253
Ngachitha izinsuku emathala ezincwadi
zomthetho futhi ngathola le mithombo.

23:37.253 --> 23:44.520
Kuphinde kwashiwo eGazini Lezomthetho Kazwelonke ka-1994
ukuthi konke kuzohlala njengoba kunjalo. Sizohlala sibanjwe.

23:44.520 --> 23:52.700
Ngakho-ke sihlangabezana nokubanjwa ngempela nangokomthetho.

23:52.700 --> 23:57.700
Futhi uTrump ngeke akhiphe amasosha akhe
lapha kuze kube sesivumelwaneni sokuthula.

23:57.700 --> 24:00.708
Kumele kulungiswe lokho. Akukho okuzokwenzeka kuze kube yilapho.

24:00.708 --> 24:05.959
Kunezizwi eziningi ezithi, yebo, bantu
baseMelika, sekuyisikhathi sokuba nibuyele ekhaya.

24:05.959 --> 24:11.106
Lokho ngeke kusebenze ngoba sisendaweni eboshiwe amasosha.

24:11.106 --> 24:17.200
Futhi akukho okuzokwenzeka kuze
sixoxisane ngalokhu esivumelwaneni sokuthula.

24:17.200 --> 24:22.886
Futhi-ke singabuyisa ubukhosi bethu obusebenzayo.

24:22.886 --> 24:29.919
Kla.TV: Ngakho-ke, uma ngiqonda kahle, uDonald Trump
nohulumeni wakhe kumele baqinisekise kuqala ukuthi

24:29.919 --> 24:34.120
abamele ngokomthetho baxoxisane ngesivumelwano sokuthula.

24:34.120 --> 24:40.226
Khona-ke bekuzofanele ukuthi ngandlela thile
akhansele isimo sokubusa. MH: Qeda. Kla.TV: Qeda.

24:40.226 --> 24:50.432
Futhi vele ume nje, ngokwempela, uvumele iJalimane ukuthi
isebenze futhi ngokuhambisana nomthethosisekelo wayo wango-1871

24:50.432 --> 24:55.280
kanye nezikhungo zombuso ezazisungulwe ngaleso sikhathi.

24:55.280 --> 24:58.286
Ingabe ngikuqondile kahle? MH: Uyiqondile kahle.

24:58.286 --> 25:02.060
Isimo sikaTrump esiyisisekelo. Sengimxhumane naye kanye.

25:02.060 --> 25:05.180
Wangiphendula ngokushesha. Ngamangala.

25:05.180 --> 25:09.952
Ngemva kwezinsuku ezimbalwa, wangiphendula. Kwakungu-imeyili.

25:09.952 --> 25:16.680
Kwakucacile phakathi kwemigqa ukuthi wayesho nje,
kulungile, nina bamaJalimane, lokhu kuwumsebenzi wenu futhi.

25:16.680 --> 25:20.813
Angifuni ukuphazamisa kakhulu noma ukuyala.

25:20.813 --> 25:25.926
Unokwanele okufanele akwenze eMelika, e-USA.

25:25.926 --> 25:36.960
Kwavela ukuthi empeleni kusezandleni
zamaJalimane ukubuyela lapho nokubuyisa ubukhosi babo.

25:36.960 --> 25:42.707
Kodwa-ke, lokhu kungenzeka kuphela
ezingxoxweni noPutin okwamanje. Futhi noTrump. Ngoba

25:42.707 --> 25:45.856
lezo zisekhona njengemithetho esemthethweni.

25:45.856 --> 25:52.480
Kla.TV: Kulungile. Ngakho-ke uTrump kumele
futhi avumelane noPutin ngombuzo waseJalimane.

25:52.480 --> 25:56.126
Kufanele futhi kube nengxoxo. Kufanele kube yindaba yokuxoxa.

25:56.126 --> 26:04.925
Futhi bobabili babo, mhlawumbe kanye neBrithani Elikhulu
neFrance, kuzodingeka banqume ndawonye ukuthi,

26:04.925 --> 26:15.040
kulungile, ningabuyela esimweni enasanisona ngaphansi
komthethosisekelo wakudala, osasekhona, futhi nisebenze futhi.

26:15.040 --> 26:24.288
Kodwa uma ngiqonda kahle, isinyathelo kumele sibe
sekuvela emandleni ababambe izwe, okwenza kube nokwenzeka.

26:24.288 --> 26:28.320
MH: Kokubili. Kuyinqubo yokuhlangana.

26:28.320 --> 26:32.200
Futhi, vele, kumele umuntu athathe isinyathelo sokuqala.

26:32.200 --> 26:38.080
Lesi sinyathelo esincane kakhulu kimi sokumxhumana naye nhlobo.

26:38.080 --> 26:39.640
Futhi uyazi kahle ukuthi kwenzekani.

26:39.640 --> 26:49.240
Ngoba ngesikhathi somthetho esidlule, wathi empeleni
wayefuna ukunika iJalimane isivumelwano sokuthula.

26:49.240 --> 26:52.673
Iqiniso lokuthi manje sekuphezu
kwakhe yinto eyayingenziwa kudala.

26:52.673 --> 26:57.079
Kodwa wayishilo ngamazwi, futhi ngiyazi
ukuthi abantu abaningi bayayijwayela nayo.

26:57.079 --> 27:01.690
Futhi abaningi mhlawumbe abazange benze lutho ngalokho
ngoba becabanga ukuthi sinento efana nesivumelwano sokuthula.

27:01.690 --> 27:05.593
Akakhulumi lokho ngaphandle kwesizathu.
Bayazi kahle ukuthi kwenzekani eJalimane.

27:05.593 --> 27:11.680
Futhi uPutin uthe kulesi simo ukuthi naye
angathanda ukuqeda isivumelwano sokuthula. NeJalimane.

27:11.680 --> 27:17.546
Akasazi nje ukuthi angasayina bani.
Ngaleso sikhathi, kwakuyisikhathi sikaMerkel.

27:17.546 --> 27:20.680
Futhi akayena ummeleli osesemthethweni we-Reich yaseJalimane.

27:20.680 --> 27:26.926
Yingakho ayisho ngokunembile
ngendlela ejikayo. Kufanele unake lokho.

27:26.926 --> 27:35.506
Kla.TV: Kodwa-ke, ubuholi base-US kanye
neFedereyishini yaseRussia bangasekela kanjani, ngenxa yami

27:35.506 --> 27:41.319
nje, ukuthi abamele abafanele nabo bafike etafuleni?

27:41.319 --> 27:45.210
MH: Njengoba ngishilo, lokhu
impela kuwumcimbi wabantu baseJalimane.

27:45.210 --> 27:50.686
Ngine abangane lapho abanexhumano elihle e-embasini yaseRussia.

27:50.686 --> 27:56.726
Bathi singakhuluma noPutin ngokulingana. Uvulekile.

27:56.726 --> 28:03.670
Uma sithumela abamele, noma ngabe
kungesikhashana kuphela, ngeke avale umnyango.

28:03.670 --> 28:12.190
Sikwenze kwacaca kubantu abase-embasini
nakithi uqobo, ngokuthi. Iminyango ivulekile.

28:12.190 --> 28:17.695
Kusimweni sethu ukuqinisekisa ukuthi samukelwa
njengabalingana, ukuthi nathi sithathe lezi

28:17.695 --> 28:20.790
zinyathelo, nokuthi sixhumane komunye nomunye.

28:20.790 --> 28:24.230
Lokho kuyavela kancane kancane eJalimane.

28:24.230 --> 28:27.230
Kla.TV: Iphuzu elithakazelisayo, Dokotela Haug.

28:27.230 --> 28:31.930
Kuhle. Futhi ungafunda ngazo eziningi
zalezi zinto, mhlawumbe encwadini yakho.

28:31.930 --> 28:38.950
MH: Konke kukhona lapho, yonke imibhalo esemthethweni
nomlando, ngicwaninge konke ngokucophelela nangokujulile.

28:38.950 --> 28:45.070
Angiphelele. Kuhlale kunezinto umuntu omunye akwazi ngcono.

28:45.070 --> 28:48.910
Kuhle, ngiyajabula ngalokho. Ngihlala ngenza izinguqulo ezintsha.

28:48.910 --> 28:58.193
Lena inguqulo yesibili, engiyandisile futhi
ngayicebisa yonke into ngemibono eyengeziwe.

28:58.193 --> 29:01.376
Kodwa konke okukuyo sekucwaningwe ngokucophelela.

29:01.376 --> 29:10.630
Kla.TV: Kuhle kakhulu. Dokotela Haug, ngiyabonga kakhulu
ngokusinika ukuqonda okuncane ngezimfihlo zeReich yaseJalimane.

29:10.630 --> 29:16.440
Sisagxumeke kuphela ungqimba wangaphandle,
kunjalo, kodwa bekuthakazelisa ukuzwa ngakho.

29:16.440 --> 29:24.766
Lokhu kusho ukuthi manje umthwalo usebandleni lamaJalimane uqobo.

29:24.766 --> 29:31.250
Futhi amandla abusa izwe
bazimisele ukulalela nokusekela lezi zinto.

29:31.250 --> 29:33.430
MH: Noma kunjalo. Lona ulwazi lwami.

29:33.430 --> 29:40.419
Ngaphandle kwalokho, impendulo bekungeke ifike
ngokushesha kangaka noTrump, isibonelo, kanye nabamele iRussia.

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Kla.TV: Kuhle. MH: Ngiyabonga kakhulu. Kla.TV:
Yebo, akukho nto. MH: Ngithanda ukusho

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kuleli phuzu ukuthi ngikwazile ukudlulisa okuthile.

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Kusasesobuso. Kungenzeka ukuthi kuzoba nezingxoxo zokulandela
lapho sizongena khona kancane ngokujulile lapha nalapha.

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Kuncike. Lokho kungasiza. Ngiyabonga kakhulu.

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Kla.TV: Kuhle. Ngiyabonga
ngokuzimisela kwakho ukusiza. MH: Ngiyabonga.