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2
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Ngiyajabula ukwamukela umqambi wefilimu yocwaningo
uKlaus Scheidsteger ku-Kla.tv ukuze senze ingxoxo namuhla.

3
00:00:08,993 --> 00:00:12,220
Mnu. Scheidsteger, abaningi babukeli
bethu abakakakwazi ngawe okwamanje.

4
00:00:12,220 --> 00:00:18,126
Ungazethula kafushane futhi usitshele kancane ngomsebenzi wakho?

5
00:00:18,126 --> 00:00:21,600
Yebo, ngiyajabula. Ngiyabonga ngokungimema kulesi sixoxo.

6
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,247
Lokho kuye kwenzeka kaningi muva nje. Ngiyajabula, vele.

7
00:00:25,247 --> 00:00:30,220
Yebo, empeleni nginguntatheli wethelevishini ngomsebenzi.

8
00:00:30,220 --> 00:00:35,440
Ngafunda ubuntatheli eNyuvesi yaseDortmund futhi
ngangiyingxenye yeqembu lokuqala ngaleso sikhathi.

9
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:43,375
Lolu hlelo olusha ezifundweni zami ezigxile ekusebenzeleni
lwaholela ekuqeqeshweni ngemva kokuthola idiploma yami

10
00:00:43,375 --> 00:00:48,493
ephakathi, engakwazi ukuyiqeda eWestdeutscher Rundfunk eCologne.

11
00:00:48,493 --> 00:00:51,286
Lokho kwakuyisikhathi lapho kwakungekho abasakazi abazimele.

12
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Yebo, lokho kwakusengumcimbi wokusakaza ocelwe abezindaba.

13
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Noma ubani onombono omuhle wayevunyelwe
ukuwusebenzisa; kwakungekho ukuhlungiwe noma yini enye.

14
00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:06,193
Futhi kwakuyisikhathi esimnandi nje, lezo
kwakuyiminyaka eyayingikhulisa, engangiyijabulela kakhulu.

15
00:01:06,193 --> 00:01:13,320
Intuthuko elandelayo kwaba ukunikezwa kwelayisensi kubahlinzeki
bokusakaza abazimele. Ngesikhathi ngineminyaka

16
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engu-30, ngo-1984, ngasungula inkampani yami
yokukhiqiza amafilimu edolobheni lami lasekhaya i-Essen.

17
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:28,407
Kusukela lapho, ngakhiqiza izindaba zamazwe
ngamazwe, imibiko nama-documentary ngisebenzisa

18
00:01:28,407 --> 00:01:32,855
imishini yami nethimu yami, okwakumnandi kakhulu.

19
00:01:32,855 --> 00:01:45,002
Okwesikhashana, kuze kube cishe phakathi
neminyaka yama-1990, izinto zaqala ukushintsha.

20
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Kufana nokuthi manje sesiyazi ukuthi ababukeli
bafuna ukubona ini, ngakho yeka lezo zinto zakho

21
00:01:50,078 --> 00:01:52,638
ezingelutho zobuhlakani; akekho ofuna ukubona lokho.

22
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Kulungile

23
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Ngemva kwalokho, nganciphisa ukubamba kwami
enkampanini okwesikhashana futhi ngakhiqiza ku-Arte.

24
00:02:00,573 --> 00:02:09,206
Kwakusengumsakazi onombono ovulekile kakhulu, kodwa masithi nje
ukuthi engangikufundile ngaphambilini kwancipha kancane kancane.

25
00:02:09,206 --> 00:02:12,840
Ngakho-ke wonke umuntu wayecabanga ukuthi angaba intatheli.

26
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:18,922
Futhi lokho okwakuyisebenzisana ngokubambisana –
bekukhona ithimba lekhamera nomhleli – kwadingeka

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00:02:18,922 --> 00:02:22,839
kwenziwe ngesinyathelo ngesinyathelo ngumuntu oyedwa.

28
00:02:22,839 --> 00:02:27,908
Impela, lokhu kwenzeka futhi ngesikhathi
lomgwaqo lwaguqulwa lwaba lwedijithali. Kodwa

29
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ngokwokuqukethwe, kwaba kubi kakhulu kakhulu.

30
00:02:30,755 --> 00:02:38,400
Kodwa okwakubalulekile, futhi okusabalulekile
nanamuhla, wukuthi nganginelukuluku lemfundo elihle.

31
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,096
Sekuyiminyaka ecishe ibe ngu-20 manje,
imibiko yakho nama-documentary akho

32
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aphindaphinda agxila ezokuxhumana ngocingo lweselula.

33
00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:52,480
Wabona kanjani lesi sigaba
somkhakha njengomsebenzi wokuphila kwakho?

34
00:02:52,480 --> 00:03:00,486
Empeleni okwenzekile kwakuwukuthi abantu abazwela
kakhulu ugesi basondela kimi empilweni yami yangasese.

35
00:03:00,486 --> 00:03:07,912
Bathi bangazwa ukuthi ngiphatha ifoni ephathekayo.
Futhi ekuqaleni ngangicabanga ukuthi babengahlanya kancane.

36
00:03:07,912 --> 00:03:18,029
Kodwa emhlanganweni wethu olandelayo, laba bantu banginika
incwadi yososayensi waseMelika ogama lakhe linguDkt George Carlo,

37
00:03:18,029 --> 00:03:27,331
owake wenza ucwaningo egameni lomkhakha phakathi kuka-1993
no-1999, futhi wabhala le ncwadi ngokubambisana nomlobi

38
00:03:27,331 --> 00:03:34,429
weWashington Post ogama lakhe linguMartin
Schram, lapho achaza khona okuhlangenwe nakho

39
00:03:34,429 --> 00:03:38,805
kwakhe nomkhakha – umkhakha wawuyiklayenti lakhe.

40
00:03:38,805 --> 00:03:46,833
Wayethola izinkinga, kodwa lezi
zazingazazisiwe emphakathini ngendlela eyayidingeka.

41
00:03:46,833 --> 00:03:55,519
Futhi lo uGeorge Carlo wayenokugxila okukhulu ezintweni ezimbili
empilweni yakhe, njengoba wayefunde izokwelapha nomthetho.

42
00:03:55,519 --> 00:03:58,560
Futhi bakhethe umlingani wokuzilolonga ongafanele.

43
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:04,975
Lowo muntu-ke waqhubeka wazama ukuhlela nokusiza ukwakha
izimangalo zomthetho ngokumelene nomkhakha

44
00:04:04,975 --> 00:04:11,900
omkhulu wocingo lweselula, futhi waphakamisa konke
lokhu ngokususelwa ekutholakaleni kwakhe kwesayensi.

45
00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:17,606
Okusho ukuthi, kwakuyindaba enkulu, kodwa
ngokumangazayo akekho owake wayikhathalela.

46
00:04:17,606 --> 00:04:24,500
Kwathi-ke ngokuhamba kwesikhathi ngazibandakanya kancane
kancane kulesi sihloko, esihlanganisa izihloko eziningi kakhulu.

47
00:04:26,149 --> 00:04:32,439
Yebo, ngamafilimu akho usungule ukuxhumana nochwepheshe
abadumile kulo mkhakha. Usanda ukukhuluma ngoGeorge Carlo.

48
00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:39,412
Ungachaza kafushane ngalokhu? Wahlangana nobani
abanye ochwepheshe, futhi imibono yabo iyini?

49
00:04:39,412 --> 00:04:50,112
Yebo, ifilimu yami yokuqala kakhulu, eyasakazwa kuthelevishini
yaseFrance ngo-2006, yagxila kakhulu ezimangweni ezibhekiswe

50
00:04:50,112 --> 00:04:56,333
embonini yocingo lweselula, ngokusekelwe emiphumeleni yesayensi.

51
00:04:56,333 --> 00:05:04,938
Futhi konke kwakususelwa endabeni kaGeorge
Carlo, owayephikiswa ngemuva kokuba eyiveze obala.

52
00:05:04,938 --> 00:05:12,593
Eqinisweni, ngolwazi olubalulekile lokuvikelwa
kwabathengi oluvela ocwaningweni lwesayensi lwayo, kodwa

53
00:05:12,593 --> 00:05:17,188
oluxhaswe yimboni, kwaholela emiphumeleni ebhubhisayo.

54
00:05:17,188 --> 00:05:28,359
Futhi phakathi nale ndaba yokuqala, eyasakazwa ngo-2006 kumsakazo
kahulumeni waseFrance iFrance Deux, ngahlangana nososayensi

55
00:05:28,359 --> 00:05:36,313
oyedwa noma ababili ngosizo lukaGeorge Carlo,
owayengakaze athole izinkinga kuphela kodwa

56
00:05:36,313 --> 00:05:41,586
futhi nezixazululo. Lokho bekuthakazelisa kakhulu.

57
00:05:41,586 --> 00:05:46,506
Kwakukhona okwakubizwa ngokuthi
iNoisefield eNyuvesi yaseWashington.

58
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Ngokungeziwe, abantu abathole lokhu egameni
lomkhakha, okungukuthi amasosha, bakhuluma ngakho ngokusobala.

59
00:06:00,099 --> 00:06:06,544
Bengitshela ukuthi i-Motorola
yayingumhlinzeki wempi. I-Motorola, ngempela, ingumqambi

60
00:06:06,544 --> 00:06:09,846
wokuqala kwezokuxhumana ngocingo lweselula.

61
00:06:09,846 --> 00:06:16,424
Futhi iMotorola yaqashwa ukubona ukuthi
ingabe kungatholakala okuthile okungenza

62
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imisebe ingasebenzi kodwa kusavumela ukuxhumana.

63
00:06:21,366 --> 00:06:26,953
Bese bachitha iminyaka eyishumi becwaninga lokhu
futhi bathola lokho okwaziwa ngokuthi insimu yomsindo.

64
00:06:26,953 --> 00:06:35,353
Futhi ngemva kokuthi bekwethule lokhu
kuMotorola, abunjiniyela baqala bejabule kakhulu.

65
00:06:35,353 --> 00:06:45,766
Kukhona uProfesa Lipowitz, owaziwa nabacwaningi futhi osefile.

66
00:06:45,766 --> 00:06:49,698
Kodwa umlandeli wakhe kamuva waqhubeka nayo yonke into.

67
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Abunjiniyela abanomdlandla kwaMotorola bagcina
sebethathelwa indawo kancane kancane ngamagqwetha, abathi

68
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ekugcineni ukuthi lokho okwazitholile lapha kwakungekho.

69
00:07:04,206 --> 00:07:10,308
Amabutho asebenzisa noma kunjalo ukuvikela
abafana bawo ekuchayekeni emwarhweni, ngokuthi.

70
00:07:10,308 --> 00:07:17,396
Kodwa akazange akhiphe konke ngoba akufanele kube nezinkinga,
ngoba kunezicelo zamacala ezihamba

71
00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:25,113
ngasikhathi sinye futhi izimangalo ezinkulu
zamaqembu zingabangela ukuthi lonke umkhakha liwe.

72
00:07:25,113 --> 00:07:26,940
Hhayi, lokho bekujabulisa kakhulu.

73
00:07:26,940 --> 00:07:33,881
Phakathi nomsebenzi wami olandelayo,
ngakwazi-ke ukufunda ngokukhethekile ngocwaningo

74
00:07:33,881 --> 00:07:37,794
lwaseYurophu, ngoba uGeorge Carlo wangeniswa.

75
00:07:37,794 --> 00:07:45,426
Kukhona ifilimu ethi Thank You for Calling, lapho ngikubonisa
lokhu kancane futhi ngingena ezilabhorethri zabantu abafana

76
00:07:45,426 --> 00:07:50,913
noKundi noMoosgöller, okungukuthi uMichael Kundi
waseMedUni Vienna, udokotela wezempilo

77
00:07:50,913 --> 00:07:55,359
emsebenzini owaphinde wenza ucwaningo egameni lukahulumeni.

78
00:07:55,359 --> 00:08:00,813
Kukhona abantu abafana noWilli
Moosgöller, ongumcwaningi womdlavuza ngempela.

79
00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:04,633
Ngalendlela ngamazi uProfesa Adlkofer.

80
00:08:04,633 --> 00:08:10,286
Amagama amakhulu – abantu abanolwazi
oluthile ngalesi sihloko bayawazisa lawa.

81
00:08:10,286 --> 00:08:25,900
Wayeqale i-Reflex Study, ucwaningo lwaseYurophu, olwazama kamuva
ukuludikisa ngokuthi luyocwaningo oluyalelwe noma olungamanga.

82
00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:30,206
Kulungile, lokho bekuthakazelisa
kakhulu. Uyabona le phatheni kaningi kaningi.

83
00:08:30,206 --> 00:08:37,407
Bonke abantu abathole okuthile baphikiswa yiqembu
elinomthelela elithola ukwesekwa okukhulu

84
00:08:37,407 --> 00:08:42,559
kwezimali embonini, futhi kwezinye izikhathi bayasuswa.

85
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,626
Lesi simo ngempela siyinhlekelele,
ikakhulukazi kithi thina abathengi.

86
00:08:46,626 --> 00:08:53,113
Kodwa nathi sinokuvikelwa ekuradiyashini eJalimane,
futhi benza umsebenzi omuhle wokusivikela ekuradiyashini.

87
00:08:55,539 --> 00:08:59,773
Yebo, usuvele wabikezela umbuzo
olandelayo kancane ngamazwana akho.

88
00:08:59,773 --> 00:09:03,034
Abanye abantu abazibiza ngokuthi
bangososayensi, cishe bonke, empeleni bamane nje banikeza

89
00:09:03,034 --> 00:09:05,306
imvume ngendaba yokuxhumana ngocingo lweselula.

90
00:09:05,306 --> 00:09:10,314
Ngicabanga ukuthi izizathu sezisobala kulokho okushiwo muva nje.

91
00:09:10,314 --> 00:09:14,641
Yebo, kunezincwadi ezithakazelisayo kakhulu
ngalesi sihloko. Lokhu akuyona nje into

92
00:09:14,641 --> 00:09:17,633
eyenzeka kwezokuxhumana ngocingo lweselula namuhla.

93
00:09:17,633 --> 00:09:22,935
Kuyafana embonini, embonini yokudla njalo njalo.

94
00:09:22,935 --> 00:09:27,746
Kulungile, kunezincwadi ezimbili ezibhalwe
nguProfesa Kreis, ophinde avele kule

95
00:09:27,746 --> 00:09:30,659
filimu yami yakamuva ethi "The Digital Dilemma".

96
00:09:30,659 --> 00:09:37,480
Christian Kreis wabhala: "ucwaningo
oluthengiwe" kanye "nesayensi ethengiwe"

97
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:48,541
Futhi uchaza ngokucacile ukuthi abantu abangahambisani nezixuku,
uma kungathiwa kanjalo, bayahlaselwa, bathuthelwa kwenye

98
00:09:48,541 --> 00:09:54,700
indawo, futhi bayasongelwa. Kukhona izimo ezahlukene ngempela.

99
00:09:54,700 --> 00:10:02,973
Futhi ekuqaleni, nami ngangingenalwazi.
Angikwazanga ukucabanga ukuthi ububi obunjalo babubusa lapho.

100
00:10:02,973 --> 00:10:11,638
Kodwa ngeshwa kunjalo nje, ngoba sinemboni yomhlaba wonke,
vele. Sine ubuchwepheshe obumangalisayo, akukho mibuzo ngalokho.

101
00:10:11,638 --> 00:10:18,020
Sobabili sikhuluma ngalokhu
okungenzeka kwedijithali nokunye nokunye.

102
00:10:18,020 --> 00:10:21,446
Sonke sisebenzisa izingcingo eziphathwayo. Asiphikisani nazo.

103
00:10:21,446 --> 00:10:29,493
Kodwa esikwabonile nakwizimo ezithile
kwakuwukuthi kwesinye isikhathi kwakunzima kakhulu ukuveza.

104
00:10:29,493 --> 00:10:38,126
Kodwa kukhona, isibonelo, i-ICNIRP – iKomishana Yamazwe
Ngamazwe Yokuvikelwa Kokukhanya Okungeyona Okwe-Ionising.

105
00:10:38,126 --> 00:10:42,459
Futhi i-ICNIRP isekelwe eHhovisi Likazwelonke
Lokuvikela Ekukhanyeni Kwezinhlamvu futhi

106
00:10:42,459 --> 00:10:45,153
ixhaswa ngemali yabakhokhi bentela baseJalimane.

107
00:10:45,153 --> 00:10:52,952
Kukhona umbiko obizwa nge-ICNIRP owenziwe ngumlingani waseMunich,
uProfesa Buchner, ngokubambisana

108
00:10:52,952 --> 00:11:00,900
noMichelle Rivasi, ilungu lePhalamende laseYurophu
elivela eFrance, owashona ngokudabukisayo.

109
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:06,520
Ungakwazi futhi ukuyilanda njengefayela le-PDF
kusuka kuwebhusayithi ye-Competence Initiative.

110
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:12,895
Amalungu ngamunye aleli khomishini, elibeka izindinganiso
nemikhawulo yokuvikelwa ekukhanyeni

111
00:11:12,895 --> 00:11:19,953
komsakazi emhlabeni jikelele, baphenywa, kwavela
ukuthi bonke banobudlelwano nomkhakha wezimboni.

112
00:11:19,953 --> 00:11:26,859
Ngakho-ke nabo bakhokhelwa
embonini; lawa amaqiniso nje adalwe lapha.

113
00:11:26,859 --> 00:11:34,611
Futhi kungaba nentshisekelo enkulu kunoma ubani
ofuna ukubheka lo mbiko obizwa nge-ICNIRP,

114
00:11:34,611 --> 00:11:39,315
lapho uzothola khona ngokushesha lokho okufunayo.

115
00:11:39,315 --> 00:11:48,906
Iqembu labalingani elibizwa nge-Investigate
Europe nalo selifingqe lokhu kahle kakhulu.

116
00:11:48,906 --> 00:11:57,246
Futhi ngikubonisa lokhu efilimini yami entsha.
Ngakho-ke, das-digitale-dilemma.de (njalo kunehyphen phakathi)

117
00:11:57,246 --> 00:12:02,360
inikeza ukuqonda okuningi, uma ngingazikhuthaza kancane.

118
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,740
Yebo, impela.

119
00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:12,649
Yebo, nakuba ama-documentary akho ayehlale ephikisanwa kakhulu,
ikakhulukazi maqondana nezempilo yabantu bonke, aboniswe kanye

120
00:12:12,649 --> 00:12:18,023
kuphela – njengoba wawusho ngaphambilini – kudokhumentari
kumabonakude waseFrance, kanti eJalimane

121
00:12:18,023 --> 00:12:24,000
aboniswe kuphela ngokufingqiwe futhi ngaphandle
kwanoma yiluphi uhlobo lokumemezela lolu hlelo.

122
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,080
Njengomuntu ongaphakathi, yiziphi izipiliyoni
onazo ngalokho okubizwa ngokuthi okuyinhloko

123
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,020
mayelana nodaba lokuxhumana ngocingo lweselula?

124
00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:36,733
Yebo, kahle, bekuyisipiliyoni esinamandla kakhulu.

125
00:12:36,733 --> 00:12:43,224
Ngakho-ke, ifilimu yokuqala kakhulu kwakuyikhiqizo
elalicelwe yiFrance Deux eParis. Ngaleso sikhathi, kwakusekhona

126
00:12:43,224 --> 00:12:47,046
inhloko yefilimu yezincwadi enombono ovulekile kakhulu.

127
00:12:47,046 --> 00:12:57,183
Wathi: Bheka, ungumJalimane, mhlawumbe unokhetho lokuhlanganisa,
inketho yokukhiqiza ngokubambisana ne-ARD, isibonelo. Ngiyamazi

128
00:12:57,183 --> 00:13:01,920
umuntu lapho, umhleli omkhulu onomqondo ovulekile e-MDR.

129
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:10,866
Futhi nami ngangimazi, ngakho ngaxhumana naye
wathi, "Kulungile, masikwenze. Sidinga imizuzu engu-45."

130
00:13:10,866 --> 00:13:15,826
AmaFulentshi adinga imizuzu engu-50 kuya
kwengu-52 ukuze benze ifomethi yabo yokusakaza.

131
00:13:15,826 --> 00:13:22,319
Futhi ngathembiswa ukuthi konke lokhu
kuzosakazwa futhi ku-ARD, isiteshi esiyinhloko.

132
00:13:22,319 --> 00:13:28,386
Kwavezwa ngesikhathi esiphambili
eFrance. Futhi kwaphindwa izikhathi eziningana.

133
00:13:28,386 --> 00:13:31,900
AmaJalimane ekuqaleni bavala ifilimu ekhabhinethi yobuthi.

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00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:32,626
Kulungile

135
00:13:32,626 --> 00:13:40,501
Kodwa kufanele futhi ngisho ukuthi ifilimu
yayinesihloko esamenyezelwa eziphephandabeni: Portables en

136
00:13:40,501 --> 00:13:46,013
accusation – okusho izingcingo eziphathwayo ezibekwe icala.

137
00:13:46,013 --> 00:13:55,180
Futhi lesi sihloko sashintshwa kancane kusihlwa
sokusakazwa ngaphansi kwengcindezi yamagqwetha embonini.

138
00:13:55,180 --> 00:13:59,985
Kwathi: USA: Amanye amafoni
eselula esitatimendeni sokumangalelwa.

139
00:13:59,985 --> 00:14:13,780
Futhi kwadingeka sivumelane ukufaka incazelo
emibhalweni yokubonga ethi i-WHO ilawula konke.

140
00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:16,340
Ngakho-ke empeleni akukho nkinga.

141
00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:26,613
Yize konke okwenzeka kule filimu kwenzeka lapho, kwadingeka
sifake lesi sengezo ukuze siqinisekise ababukeli, ngokuthi.

142
00:14:26,613 --> 00:14:34,580
Abameli abasebenza ngaphakathi kwesiteshi sokudlisa bezisesimweni
esinzima ngempela. Futhi kwadingeka ngihambisane nakho.

143
00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:38,486
Ngathola ithuba lokusho, kulungile,
ngakho-ke ngeke siyithumele nhlobo.

144
00:14:38,486 --> 00:14:44,500
Noma ngizovuma lezi zinguquko ezincane.
Yilapho kwaqala khona, kuyindaba nje ethokozisayo.

145
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:50,920
Kwenziwa imali eningi kakhulu lapho.
Abantu abayithandi lapho lokho kuphazamiseka.

146
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:57,613
Ngakho-ke kwaba nokunikela okubalulekile kokuqala okwake
kwaba khona, okwenzeka ngo-1993 ohlelweni lokuxoxa eMelika.

147
00:14:57,613 --> 00:15:04,733
Ngenxa yalokho, izabelo
ze-Motorola zehla ngo-10% phakathi kwesonto.

148
00:15:04,733 --> 00:15:13,655
Futhi vele baphendula bagcwalisa zonke izikhundla ukuze kungabi
khona okungalungile, bese kulandela lokhu emithonjeni yezindaba.

149
00:15:13,655 --> 00:15:19,246
Ngoba okulandelayo kwenzeka e-ARD, okungukuthi i-slash MDR.

150
00:15:19,246 --> 00:15:26,280
Abazange bangazise nhlobo. Bahlale bethi:
Kulungile, sizoyithumela ngesinye isikhathi, sizokwazisa.

151
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:33,894
Futhi ekupheleni konyaka, ngathola ucingo
oluvela kumsizi ngosuku olwandulela ukusakazwa, othe:

152
00:15:33,894 --> 00:15:43,500
Sizobonisa uhlelo kusasa, kodwa sesisike imizuzu
engu-30 – noma, cha, sesisifinye imizuzu engu-30.

153
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:49,540
Bengilethile imizuzu engu-45 eyayiceliwe futhi eyayikhokhelwe.

154
00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:56,426
Kwabe sengiqaphela ukuthi bekungekho
isimemezelo sohlelo salesi sihloko.

155
00:15:56,426 --> 00:16:01,597
Ngakho ngashayela ozakwethu eSüddeutsche Zeitung.
Ngoba ngaleso sikhathi babe nesigaba sezindaba

156
00:16:01,597 --> 00:16:05,087
esithakazelisayo kakhulu, esasiphinde sibe nokugxeka.

157
00:16:05,087 --> 00:16:07,660
Ngakhanga ukunaka kwabo kuleli xhumano.

158
00:16:07,660 --> 00:16:18,280
Bese baxhumana nomsakazi futhi, ngokungafani nami, bathola
impendulo eyayithi: Ifilimu yayingenalo uxhumano lwaseJalimane.

159
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:24,580
Kwathi-ke ngabuka ifilimu ngosuku olulandelayo
ngesikhathi sayo sokudluliswa ngo-10 ekuseni.

160
00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:30,320
Isithenjwa sesiJalimane naso besingekho; basisika bona uqobo.

161
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,357
Yebo, yilokho engangikuzwa, okuyinto engakholakali ngempela.

162
00:16:35,357 --> 00:16:45,400
Kodwa yilokho okwabangela izinyathelo zokucwasa iminyaka engu-20
edlule. Ngemva kwalokho ngabheka ukuthi lokhu kwakuxhumene nani.

163
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,661
Ngonyaka lowo, babe noT-Mobile
njengomlingani weGerman Football League.

164
00:16:50,661 --> 00:16:56,940
Bengakwazi ukuzibeka engcupheni yokulahlekelwa umthengi wabo
omuhle kakhulu, umthengi wabo omuhle kakhulu wezokukhangisa

165
00:16:56,940 --> 00:17:03,760
– owangenisa izigidi ezimbalwa zemali ngonyaka futhi
owayekwazi ukubasekela ekutholeni amalungelo e-Bundesliga.

166
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,633
Ngalesi simo, isithenjwa saseJalimane sashiywa ngenhloso.

167
00:17:07,633 --> 00:17:14,706
Ngakho yebo, namuhla ngiyakwazi ukuhleka ngalokho.
Ngaleso sikhathi ngangicabanga, Nkulunkulu wami, wenzani?

168
00:17:14,706 --> 00:17:17,619
Akufundiswanga ngaleyo ndlela ukwenza lokhu.

169
00:17:17,619 --> 00:17:29,206
Yebo. Njengentatheli, ubona yiziphi amathuba ababukeli bethu
anazo okubhekisa kulezi zenzo zobugebengu zokucwasa kwezindaba?

170
00:17:29,206 --> 00:17:35,914
Hhayi-ke, usuvele usebenzisa amathuba akhona kuze kube manje.

171
00:17:35,914 --> 00:17:44,866
Yebo, nami nganginomuzwa ongaphakathi ngalokhu, ngoba, masithi,
konke konke kuwukuhlambalaza okukhulu, ngisho phakathi kwabantu

172
00:17:44,866 --> 00:17:50,435
abagxeka izokuxhumana eziphathwayo;
isibonelo, awudume yonke indawo, okuyihlazo

173
00:17:50,435 --> 00:17:54,386
ngempela. Kuphela umbulali oyazi ukuthi kungani.

174
00:17:54,386 --> 00:17:58,646
Kodwa badubula noma kuphi lapho bengakwazi khona.

175
00:17:58,646 --> 00:18:05,446
Ngazizwa lokhu kangangokuba ngempela ngacabanga ukuthi sekwanele.

176
00:18:05,446 --> 00:18:12,201
Futhi ithuba kuphela, ngokombono wami,
njengamanje lisekhona ekubeni nekhono nasemandleni

177
00:18:12,201 --> 00:18:16,140
eziteshi zezindaba ezihlukile ikakhulukazi.

178
00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:29,620
Futhi ngabheka, isibonelo, umcimbi ePrague
lapho i-Auf1 yahlela khona i-AWEF. Wawukhona lapho.

179
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:35,721
Kwakukhona abanye ozakwethu ababekhona abakhuluma
ngokusobala futhi bachaza izinto, njengoba

180
00:18:35,721 --> 00:18:39,999
bekufanele benze. Futhi manje abasavunyelwe ukubamba iqhaza.

181
00:18:39,999 --> 00:18:46,973
Ngakho-ke, empeleni, kufanele umeme
abantu ababe khona cishe njalo ngesonto.

182
00:18:46,973 --> 00:18:52,406
Kodwa kuhlala kungobuso obufanayo
kwezombusazwe. Imboni, ezombusazwe kanye nezindaba

183
00:18:52,406 --> 00:18:55,886
ziyadlala umdlalo ophindwe kabili kulezi zinsuku.

184
00:18:55,886 --> 00:18:59,740
Lokhu sekwehle laya ezingeni elingamukeleki.

185
00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:08,527
Ngakho-ke uma wazi kancane ngomsebenzi wezintatheli,
ngokwesisekelo somgomo... engangizizwa kanjalo, ozakwethu

186
00:19:08,527 --> 00:19:13,633
nabo bangitshele ngokusobala: uma ungadlali ndima, uyaphuma.

187
00:19:13,633 --> 00:19:19,840
Ngiphume. Futhi ngiyajabula ngalokho.

188
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,960
Kodwa manje sengingaphakathi, Martin.

189
00:19:25,686 --> 00:19:31,366
Yebo, ake ngikubeke kanje. Ngithola umbono
wokuthi izingqondo ezigxeka azamukeleki.

190
00:19:31,366 --> 00:19:40,757
Ngakho-ke, uma kukhulunywa ngama-talk show adlalwa nsuku zonke
ndawoni, ngivame ukuthola umbono wokuthi abantu abafanayo bamemwa

191
00:19:40,757 --> 00:19:47,507
kaningi, esikhundleni sokuvumela izinto zihambe
ngokwazo nokuvumela ezinye izimvo zizwakale,

192
00:19:47,507 --> 00:19:51,786
konke kuhlelwe kusengaphambili. Lokho kuqinisekile.

193
00:19:51,786 --> 00:20:00,580
Futhi lezi yizimo nje, ngokombono wami, ezingasaseyidemokhrasi.
Futhi ngiyakubona lokhu kudabukisa kakhulu kakhulu.

194
00:20:00,580 --> 00:20:08,148
Nami ngidumele kakhulu. Njengombukeli,
unemibono ehlukahlukene, futhi angisakwazi ngisho

195
00:20:08,148 --> 00:20:12,980
ukuyibuka, ngisho ngisho lolu hlelo olujwayelekile.

196
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:16,340
Ngoba lolu hlobo lokufaka isakhelo lwenzeka kaningi.

197
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:23,238
Ngakho ake ngisho igama elibalulekile: impi yokuhlasela
kweRussia. Yebo, lokho kugcizelelwa njalo emishweni embalwa.

198
00:20:23,238 --> 00:20:30,442
Futhi kuwumsebenzi nje owenzeka kulelo zinga futhi
usetshenziswa ngenhloso yokudlala ngabantu, ngisho nangesigaba

199
00:20:30,442 --> 00:20:34,636
sobuciko namasiko, mhlawumbe ukuze abantu bazizwe bekulungele.

200
00:20:34,636 --> 00:20:41,533
Futhi lokho kuwumkhuba nje ongafanele
futhi ongenangqondo wokudlulisa ulwazi.

201
00:20:41,533 --> 00:20:48,378
Angiboni ukuthi abantu abanemicabango ehlaziyayo bavunyelwe
ukuveza imibono yabo, ngisho nakuzo izinhlelo zokuxoxa

202
00:20:48,378 --> 00:20:52,383
ezibizwa ngokuthi 'talk shows', engikubona kudabukisa kakhulu.

203
00:20:52,383 --> 00:20:57,597
Ngakho-ke ekuqaleni kobhubhane
lwe-coronavirus, kwakukhona omunye noma ababili abameli

204
00:20:57,597 --> 00:21:00,940
ababucayi abafana noWolfgang Wodarg nabanye.

205
00:21:00,940 --> 00:21:06,708
Waphinde wabonakala ekuqaleni, kwathi-ke wathulwa yabezindaba.

206
00:21:06,708 --> 00:21:12,889
Ngokuphambene nalokho, abantu abafana
noSucharit Bhakdi baphinde babekwa icala futhi

207
00:21:12,889 --> 00:21:16,926
bathulisiwe, noma kwenziwa imizamo yokubathulisa.

208
00:21:16,926 --> 00:21:21,629
Futhi bangabantu abamangalisayo kangaka. Yini oyenzayo?

209
00:21:21,629 --> 00:21:29,593
Hhayi bo, lokho akukholakali kimi. Kodwa
noma kunjalo, imikhawulo ejwayelekile.

210
00:21:29,593 --> 00:21:36,560
Yebo, futhi yilapho ngicabanga ukuthi kumele kwenziwe
okuthile ngakho, futhi lokho ngempela kuyasebenza kahle kakhulu.

211
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:44,826
Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi baningi kithi asisakhohliswa
futhi sisazenzela izinto zethu, ngamunye ngendlela yakhe.

212
00:21:44,826 --> 00:21:48,766
Kunezinhlobo zonke zezimilo namakhono ahlukene.

213
00:21:48,766 --> 00:21:53,548
Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi kubizwa ngokuthi ukuziphatha
kwabezindaba kwedemokhrasi, engikuthola kujabulisa futhi

214
00:21:53,548 --> 00:21:56,526
kunezinhlobo ezinhle ezinemibala – yilokho okufanele kube njalo.

215
00:21:56,526 --> 00:22:08,232
Futhi yilapho ngizama khona ukwenza ingxenye yami futhi. Ngosizo
lwezinhlangano ezimangalisayo ezifana ne-WIR eSwitzerland.

216
00:22:08,232 --> 00:22:13,173
Laba ngabantu abenza izinto eziningi ngasikhathi sinye.

217
00:22:13,173 --> 00:22:19,780
Kodwa ngoba nami ngenze okuthile nabo futhi
ngakwazi ukuqalisa izinto ngenxa yosizo lwabo,

218
00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:23,970
ngalokho nami ngicindezelwa ekhoneni lasekunene.

219
00:22:23,970 --> 00:22:30,166
Ngakho-ke phakathi kwethu siqu! Lokho kuyamangaza
kakhulu, kuyahlekisa kakhulu, futhi kuyahlazisa kakhulu.

220
00:22:30,166 --> 00:22:35,860
Kodwa-ke, angifuni futhi ukusebenza ngentukuthelo.

221
00:22:35,860 --> 00:22:42,425
Esikudingayo yimfundo yabathengi nokuvikelwa kwabo. Ukuze
sikufeze lokhu, abathengi uqobo kumele nabo bazakhele imibono

222
00:22:42,425 --> 00:22:47,615
yabo, hhayi nje ngokususelwa kulokho abakubona ezindabeni.

223
00:22:47,615 --> 00:22:55,910
Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi phakathi kwabo bonke laba bantu,
okungishaye kakhulu kulo mcimbi we-AWEF kwakuwukubumbana nje.

224
00:22:55,910 --> 00:23:05,026
Lobu buhlanganyelo phakathi kwabo bonke abantu abasazama
ukwakha umbono endaweni ethile nokuwusekela kule nqubo.

225
00:23:05,026 --> 00:23:10,260
Ngicabanga ukuthi lokhu kuya kwenzeka kakhulu kakhulu, ukuthi
empeleni kukhona, masithi, lezi zimo zokuzwela

226
00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:15,075
ezingaphelele—omunye umuntu uzenza ngale ndlela kanti
omunye ngaleyo—kodwa akubalulekile ngempela, ngoba

227
00:23:15,075 --> 00:23:17,974
unenjongo eyodwa: ukuhlinzeka abantu ngolwazi oluphelele.

228
00:23:17,974 --> 00:23:22,439
Futhi wonke umuntu kumele azakhele umbono wakhe. Akuyona inkinga.

229
00:23:22,439 --> 00:23:29,470
Yebo, Mnu. Scheidsteger, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngale ngxoxo
emfushane. Sikufisela impumelelo eqhubekayo kukho konke okwenzayo

230
00:23:29,470 --> 00:23:33,492
futhi sithemba ukuthi uzoqhubeka nokuba nombono ocwaningayo.

231
00:23:33,492 --> 00:23:36,226
Ngiyabonga kakhulu futhi
ngikufisela konke okuhle. Yebo, akukho nto.