"They'll probably say that the World Health Assembly will approve the treaty.
But the agreement states that it cannot be signed until the PABS annex has been included.
It's a head game. "We took it, but we can't sign it."
Update on the following interview: As predicted by James Roguski in the interview on May 10, 2025, it has now come to pass:
The pandemic agreement was "adopted" on May 20, 2025. But it has not yet come into force.
Euronews reported: "So some points are still open or at least vague.
It could be years before the agreement comes into force.
60 of the 194 WHO member states would have to ratify it."
We are very pleased to speak with James Roguski again.
We will talk about the WHO pandemic treaty.
James Roguski says he has some important news for us.
We will discuss all of this. James, thank you very much for the interview!
Oh, thank you for the invitation. And yes, it is very topical.
You know that the 78th World Health Assembly of the WHO is meeting in the last weeks of May. .
And there's a lot to talk about. What would you like to start with?
So, this is kind of an update. Many of our viewers already have some information on this topic, but there will
also be many viewers for whom the topic is completely new.
Considering all the things that plague our inboxes and our Twitter feeds, some people may not see that.
You say you have been shouting from the rooftops for two and a half years, trying to make
people understand the importance of this issue.
So let's assume that our listeners don't know how important it is to know the facts about the WHO agreement.
Can you give the new listener a brief summary?
In short: the World Health Assembly will meet in Geneva from 19 to 27 (May 2025).
This is not the same as the World Health Organization.
Delegates from all countries come together at the World Health Assembly.
They hold a meeting and make decisions.
Because they are the ones who are supposed to be the governing body of the WHO bureaucracy.
There are many things they will discuss.
But the most important of these is what has mainly interested me over the last three years, actually more
than three years: the so-called pandemic agreement.
It has many names. Many people call it a pandemic treaty, which is basically all the same thing.
And I received documents this morning that confirm my suspicions.
However, these are leaked documents. They are not yet official documents.
They may still change, but I think it's actually good news. And it's something I already knew.
They have been negotiating this pandemic agreement for three years and it has not yet been finalized.
The negotiations have not yet reached an agreement on the so-called "Pathogen Access and Benefitting System".
I know this will mean nothing to those who have never heard of it, but it looks like they will need at least
another year to negotiate this aspect of the agreement.
So, you know, inside I'm cautiously jumping for joy, because we may still have a year to make people
realize what this agreement is really, really about.
It's not over until it's over. And it's not over yet!
As the saying goes: "It's not all evening yet."
And these negotiations were so misrepresented, so misleading and confusing for many people.
Hopefully we can shed some light on the matter.
But at the moment I am cautiously optimistic that they will need another year to complete the work.
And this year we will be able to expose what they are really doing.
Excellent. Excellent. You know, that's good news.
They give me hope. I'm more than cautiously optimistic when I hear that.
But I want to address the listener who might say to themselves, 'Okay, that's great news.
But I'm telling you, it doesn't matter, because on January 25, Trump did his job.
He came and got us out of the WHO. So the WHO can do its thing.
What difference does it make? The USA is no longer involved. That doesn't affect me'. What do you say to someone like that?
Now that's what they want you to believe.
Okay, I'll do my best to keep this crystal clear so that people who have never heard of it don't get confused.
There is another issue that everyone seems to be ignoring.
And that has nothing to do with what we just talked about, the pandemic agreement.
There is a document that goes back to 1969, the International Health Regulations.
The United States is still a member of this treaty.
I have not heard Donald Trump or his administration say a single word about this agreement.
It is in force. It is international law. It is legally binding.
And on June 1, 2024, amendments were adopted when the United States participated, and they were adopted.
And there is a deadline by which every single nation has the opportunity to write a simple letter to the WHO and say:
"No, thank you, we reject these changes for our country.
We will continue to adhere to the 'International Health Regulations' that were in place before these changes."
This is quite possible, as a few amendments were passed a few years earlier.
Four countries, Iran, Slovakia, the Netherlands and New Zealand, wrote such a letter and said: "No, thank you."
The deadline for the rejection therefore runs until July 19, 2025.
And you know, nobody is talking about it because, frankly, the pandemic treaty, which will be discussed in
the last week of May, is the priority in terms of time.
But the Americans are blind and deaf to the fact that we are far from out of the woods.
Is the WHO the global body that implements the rules of the 'International Health Regulations' in detail?
Well, I'll take your wording and just change it a little.
Please do that!
They want to be seen as the guiding and coordinating authority.
Yes.
I hate to do this, but I'll take the liberty of having a little fun with you.
All right then. Raise your hand if you've actually read the 'International Health Regulations'.
Okay. It's a long document. Most people haven't read it.
It's not at all what people think it is.
And I will try to summarize it.
It is an international agreement that essentially sets out a number of standards.
And nations have goals that they have agreed to achieve.
But where it really gets down to business is at the local level in your country, perhaps in your state or
your province or your district or your municipality.
It is the local laws that have caused the problems over the last five years.
It is not the case that the Director-General of the WHO can order any country to issue mandates or
lockdowns or anything like that. They make recommendations.
And the bullies you're dealing with at the local level, whatever level.... And usually it's very, very local.
Because whoever is knocking on your door or preventing you from going to work or traveling or
living your life is probably not wearing a WHO badge.
There are people on the ground who implement and enforce the local emergency regulations.
So the problem is local. And it depends on where you live.
There are horror stories when you read the laws in Singapore or Western Australia or Canada, or...
You know, I read a law in South Carolina that I was shocked that it even existed.
It states that doctors can lose their license in an emergency situation if they do not
assist in administering vaccinations and the like.
And you know, it's in the law. I always thought they were medical associations that made life difficult for everyone.
But if you don't know the 'International Health Regulations' and you're not familiar with the local laws, statutes
and regulations, then anyone who has talked about it has, quite frankly, spread false information.
So would you say that the local laws and regulations are definitely affected and
related to the 'International Health Regulations'?
. It's a guide, and they try to accomplish those goals, and ultimately, and that happens at every level of government.
You've seen it so many times: you go to a level of government and try to take action against it, and it's said:
"Oh, I'm sorry, that's a matter for a (different) department."
And then you go to that department and they say, "Oh no, I'm sorry, it's that department."
They push you back and forth. They want to blame everyone but themselves.
So what the 'International Health Regulations' are really about, and I'll try to give a very, very
brief overview, because we could sit here for days.
It is an agreement between nations to report that something is going on in our country, some outbreak, some problem.
And as soon as they find out something, they should have facilities to inform the WHO immediately.
And then the WHO should pass the message on to everyone else in the world.
This is the core function of the 'International Health Regulations'.
And in any country, the rules they have for this surveillance can be incredibly draconian.
So wealthy countries have spent billions of dollars, in my opinion, fraudulently, using the
PCR process to control their poultry operations.
Or their dairy farms or their sewage treatment plants to look for problems and thus stir up fear (under the motto):
"Oh my God, there's another outbreak and you're all going to die."
And the reason for these negotiations is that poor countries around the world don't have the money to do that.
And the agreements are designed to take money from rich nations and organizations, the World Bank and all
those, pour it into these poor countries so they can go after these, you know, scary pathogens.
Because if they find a scary pathogen, they will want to share it with others.
That's what I mentioned, the "Pathogen Access and Benefit Sharing System" .
They want to set up this global network to find pathogens that don't necessarily cause problems.
The term they use is "pathogen with pandemic potential".
And I interpret this with an additional P: "Pathogen with pandemic profit potential".
If they tie them into this organized PABS system and pass on the genetic information and some company wants to make a test or a
drug or some other injectable - I refuse to call them vaccines - then the money that's in the
contracts that can be spent to buy those drugs flows.
I mean, they're talking about a lot of these products that they might be adding to the national stockpile
in preparation for stoking fears in you in the future.
This is exactly what these negotiations are about.
That's the business side of it: "If we can find something to scare people with, we can make a
lot of money on it, even if there's no outbreak."
Well, also in the United States, I talked about the PREP-ACT, .
We won't go into that in detail now, but I'm happy to talk to anyone about it.
However, there is also talk of security measures in connection with the PREP Act.
And just to make that tangible:
The United States has set aside three and a half billion dollars a year to purchase products to be
included in the national stockpile in case of an emergency.
What exactly they buy and stockpile is top secret information because it is a matter of national security.
But the budget we spend... on buying products for stockpiling is as big as the entire WHO budget.
So what the WHO is aiming for with the pandemic treaty is essentially similar to what happened with
the "UN Framework Convention on Climate Change".
You have to go back to 1992. And every year, all the nations of the world that have agreed to this - all through the
United Nations - meet at the Conference of the Parties (COP).
It has developed into a billion-dollar investment ruin.
And that is what the WHO is trying to create for pandemic preparation, prevention and response.
She wants to create a whole new bureaucracy focused on preventing the next pandemic by looking for pathogens that
don't cause problems, but only have the potential to do so.
These are brought to the laboratory, analyzed and then contracts are distributed to stockpile
products and have them manufactured anywhere in the world.
They want a global distribution of the means of production.
They want to oversee the logistics and distribution network, and they have a coordinated funding mechanism to funnel billions and
possibly trillions of dollars into the manufacture of products...which I believe are
biological weapons that they want to attack people with.
The tests are falsified. The drugs cause more harm.
Just think of Remdesivir, which does more harm than good.
And the alleged vaccines, the mRNA platform, is a biological weapon designed to destroy
people's health. This is not being talked about.
The question is: how much money can we generate to give orders to our cronies around the
world? I have described them as the new OPEC.
It is not the oil-producing and exporting countries.
It is the organization of the pandemic emergency companies.
This is a criminal, mafia-like, corrupt, conflict-of-interest business that everyone should sign up to.
And they all want to sign because they want a piece of the pie.
And you're saying that the whole climate change industry is basically the model that they want to copy?
Yes, essentially. I mean, not the theory of climate change, but the idea that you should be afraid, very afraid.
We have no evidence. We've been working against it for 30 years and it's getting worse.
Give us more money, right? Now it's a trillion dollar mess, you know.
And this model of setting up a bureaucracy that meets once a year, receives donations from countries
and so on. It's the idea of a framework convention.
And, you know, back in 2021, when they started the pandemic treaty, they said:
"So, we will need 33 billion dollars a year."
Okay, I take that back. It could have been 31, but it was in the 30 billion dollar range.
All right. The entire WHO budget is about three and a half billion, that's a lot of
money, but we're talking about ten times that.
And the United States alone invests this amount in the purchase of products from pharmaceutical companies.
So they buy vaccines and medicines and whatever else and just stockpile them.
There's no need to declare an emergency and get people to take the products. Because it's an endless stream, right?
If you've ever worked in retail, you know that products expire.
So you produce a few vaccines that expire five years later.
Or whatever the expiration date is, you have to make new ones.
And as long as it is quietly decided that we must have this and that in stock, it is a corrupt business with which to make money.
You did ask those who have read the 'International Health Regulations' documents to raise their hands.
What are the chances with our own government?
What about the people at the Department of Health and Human Services and the CDC?
Do these people read this? Do they know about it?
There are certainly people in the bureaucracy who know, because they were involved in the negotiations.
Maybe they are still in the administration, maybe not.
The point of all this is, "Has there been room for public comment?"
To date, the last time the WHO published an official version of the pandemic agreement was on May 27, 2024.
According to its own rules, the WHO should provide all documents to be discussed at the meeting
beginning on May 19 six weeks before the meeting.
Well, today is May 10, and we are on the brink.
I have received leaked versions, but none of the documents we are talking about here have been published for people to discuss.
And it looks as if they want to put on a theatrical production.
There is a terminology that I want to make very, very clear to people in relation to the agreement.
Many people call it the pandemic treaty. Officially, it is the pandemic treaty.
Either word is fine. You shouldn't get hung up on that.
The negotiators got to a point about a month ago where they said:
"Okay, all the highlights and all the text in the document are green, which means we agree."
So they reached an agreement, but this agreement postponed the very important annex on the "Pathogen
Access and Benefit Sharing System" to the future.
So they have agreed on most of it, but they also know that it is not yet complete.
Yet they will make it look like we can all be so happy because "everyone agrees".
And they will set up a working group to clarify the most controversial points next year.
And let me explain a little about how this came about.
If you go back a few years and remember how Omicron came into our consciousness.
Yes.
When South Africa and Botswana identified what they claimed was a new, very, very different variant and named
it Omicron, they gave the world the genetic sequence.
They were not happy when Pfizer and Moderna used them to make booster products and they didn't get paid for it.
Their intellectual property, which they had identified and made available to the world, earned Pfizer and Moderna a lot of money.
So they granted access to the pathogen, but the profits were not shared with them.
And that's what this is all about. The rich nations and all the pharmaceutical companies want to spend billions of dollars.
They want all the relatively poor countries to spend billions of dollars looking for the next big scary pathogen and hand it
to them so they can turn it into products to make lots of money.
And the point of contention is: what do we get in return?
And that is the point where they are still stuck with this PABS system.
So I am cautiously optimistic. We will have to wait and see what happens.
But I think I want to sensitize people to what is probably a confusing theatrical production.
They want to pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
But they have been saying for three years that nothing is agreed until EVERYTHING is agreed.
Well, it looks like the main reason for these negotiations is that the poorer countries have said, 'Hey, we're not going to give
you our access to the pathogens unless you share the profits'.
And the PABS system, the appendix, doesn't even seem to be available.
They plan to negotiate for at least a year.
And perhaps at the 79th Assembly in 2026, if they approve the annex, the countries could perhaps sign it and accede to it.
For new people who have never heard of it, I'll explain the real problem.
These people didn't have a single word, not a single word about, 'Hey, wait a minute, using the PCR
procedure as a diagnostic test, that's cheating.
And things like Remdesivir have not helped, but harmed and killed millions of people.
The ventilators are a horror story, and the injections are the new pandemic, the adverse side effects
of the injections are now truly a global pandemic.
What on earth? What do you think, guys?
And that's the reason why they don't allow public comment and discussion on this issue.
Exactly. Exactly.
So what they learned in 2021 when they introduced vaccinations is that the pharmaceutical industry wasn't big enough.
And the WHO is fully in cahoots with the pharmaceutical industry. It is the marketing department.
That shows how sneaky these people are. But I was paying attention.
I know that the definition of this pandemic agreement includes the phrase "relevant health-related pandemic products".
Okay, but they don't really define them.
They refer to the agreement on the 'International Health Regulations'. And that was already on June 1, 2024.
And it is essentially about all pharmaceutical products.
There are no herbs or vitamins or minerals or homeopathic remedies or anything like that.
It involves drugs and diagnostic aids that are, frankly, fraudulent, and devices such as ventilators and the
like, as well as biological products such as vaccines.
But they have also added cell- and gene-based therapies.
So since they didn't provide a link, you have to go searching, which is basically what they do....
It's organized crime to fund the buildup of Big Pharma around the world to look for pathogens that aren't
necessarily causing problems and make it look like they're very scary but have the potential for a pandemic.
They then bring them into their lab network, do whatever they're going to do in the lab, and turn it into products
that nations can quietly contract to add to their inventories.
And there is money to be made from this, even if there is never a pandemic or an outbreak or anything like that.
(Under the motto:) "Oh, we have to be prepared."
I wonder if next time they will have everything under control and not these renegade
African presidents who have their own laboratories.
Who run their own tests and find out that, well you know....
You are an optimist, and I am an optimist. But I will bring in some reality.
Unfortunately, many of these presidents are no longer on this planet.
Exactly.
If you now put yourself in the position of a dictatorial head of state of one of these countries.
They had the problem that during Covid, when they were trying to enforce vaccination requirements and
realized, "Oh, we don't have anything on the shelf."
They didn't have the production capacity.
They didn't have the money to get the contracts.
There was not enough production capacity and cold storage and so on.
They learned that it's quite difficult to make a product mandatory if you don't have it in stock.
Okay, and you don't want that to happen again. You want to keep the supplies ready so that they are available at all times.
If they want to impose their will on their own people, the WHO will be ready in due course with all the
products needed to enforce these mandates at local level.
It's not like the WHO is going to force a local bully to do this.
It will make it easier and benefit from it. A subtle but huge difference:
It's your local leaders, your local bureaucrats and health officials and doctors and everyone else who still believe
that the answer to infectious disease after the outbreak has already happened is an mRNA bioweapon. Wait a minute.
Okay, so I'm optimistic. And I'm cautiously optimistic because I don't like speculating and I don't like predicting the future.
But the documents seem to indicate that we may have another year before they can finalize this PABS agreement.
And what we must do is continue to persevere and expose the products for what they
are. These products are biological weapons.
Why on earth are they making a deal to produce more fraudulent tests, devices, drugs and mRNA?
That's evil and it's not for health! It's for the redistribution of wealth.
And I think maybe we can clear up another year before they close this thing.
If that's the case, I think my contract in the soap opera has been extended for another season.
You know, I'm fed up with the WHO.
But it looks like they have not fully negotiated the annex on "access to pathogens and benefit sharing".
And we must make it impossible for them to ever do so.
Exactly. They say the last thing they want is a public discussion about all this.
And I would ask if the rulers of the world, and they all seem to support this thing....
Just look at the response to the Covid pandemic!
If they really wanted this agreement, why is it such a lengthy process? Why is it taking the WHO so long?
I don't think they want to wait another year.
You want to wrap it up now, don't you?
You tried. But here's the thing: That's what it really comes down to.
I'm really just going to repeat what I've said.
The relatively poor countries of the world are being forced by the richer countries to spend
billions of dollars on the search for pathogens.
There is great biodiversity in the Amazon region and in the jungles south of the Sahara and everywhere else.
Now poor countries are supposed to spend huge amounts of money on searching for pathogens and testing for them.
So that they can bring this new information into this laboratory network.
So that the pharmaceutical companies can earn even more money.
I mean, the tests alone have already created billionaires.
Well, the argument is: 'If you want us to do this, you have to pay for it'. Because they don't have the money.
'And if we give it to you, you have to share the profits'. And that leaves them in a quandary:
'Hey, wait a minute, how are we going to track this, and what do you owe us and what do the contracts look like?'
And when you have 193 parties making an agreement and everyone wants a piece of the pie, it's hard to satisfy everyone's
desire to share in the profiteering from people's illnesses.
On top of that, the pharmaceutical companies do not want to give up control.
It is believed that the relatively poor countries have this biodiversity, which could
be turned into a lot of money by Big Pharma.
This goes back to a 1992 convention in which access to these biological resources is regarded as a national resource.
Like it used to be with herbs and things like that, where pharmaceutical companies came in and appropriated the
indigenous knowledge of how to use herbs to make a drug out of it and make millions and billions of dollars.
And the natives who had the knowledge got a big pile of 'nothing'.
Well, they have learned from it and it is not because the negotiators of the African nations
are in agreement with you and me. They are not.
They have their own financial interests in line with the pharmaceutical companies that have their obvious interests.
And the WHO wants to be able to facilitate distribution logistics, i.e. to conclude, regulate and approve contracts.
In other words, they want to participate in the cash flow.
And they are creating a whole new bureaucracy, the Conference of the Parties , which is very similar to what
was done with the 'United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change'. It's madness!
When you say they want to be involved in the cash flow, it sounds to me like they want to offer the biggest bribes here so they can
get the necessary precondition they need to sign the contract.
They want to speed up the regulatory process so that a new product is stamped directly and comes into circulation.
They want this coordinating financial mechanism, which was already approved in last year's amendments to the International
Health Regulations, to which the United States is a party.
I haven't heard a word from Donald Trump about this.
If people from the USA are listening here, please bring up this topic! -
"Excuse me, President Trump, you have until July 19 to send a letter to the WHO rejecting
the 'International Health Regulations' changes."
Now, one of the executive orders, that he put forward - interestingly with a deadline of 6 months, which
means that the WHO's deadline of July 19 will have passed before the regulation deadline closes.
He directed, even before Marco Rubio was Secretary of State, the State Department to evaluate or reevaluate all of
our international agreements and come back with recommendations on whether we should get out or stay in.
And these recommendations are not supposed to come out until after July 19?
If they need the full 180 days.
Because, as you know, he wasn't in office until January 20th. And the 19th is obviously before that.
Basically, the United States doesn't care whether or not we are at any point in these international agreements.
If they decide to pull out of an international agreement, they just leave and they don't care what they are going to do.
But as it stands now, we are a party to the 'International Health Regulations'.
And the adopted amendments create a funding mechanism that allows potentially billions of dollars to be channeled
into the production of biological weapons around the world.
And this is in direct competition with the three and a half billion dollars our Department of Defense
allocates annually to add all these products to our inventory.
Are we creating a new biological arms race along the lines of the 'Cold War'?
Well, the pharmaceutical companies don't care.
You will conclude a contract with the US Department of Defense.
And they will sign a contract with the WHO PABS system. They win either way.
And you know, it's always like that. You pit this side against that side.
But the people who push for it win in any case.
Unless we get smarter and fight back.
And I am, as I said, cautiously optimistic that we will continue to have time to uncover the simple fact.
That these products that the pharmaceutical industry has been using for the last five years, the fraudulent diagnoses, the
devices that are murdering people, the products like Remdesivir and others, and the mRNA platform are
not health products. They are profit-making products.
They only take healthy people and turn them into either dead people or lifelong customers because they harm them.
Many people in your audience probably know that.
But you know, the negotiators have ignored what we have all understood by now. They don't want to hear it.
Nobody had the courage to stand up in the hearing rooms and say:
"Excuse me, what the hell are we doing here? These products are not helpful."
And when you stockpile them and spend billions of dollars, you divert money away from better opportunities.
What if people had vitamin C and vitamin A and vitamin D and minerals and herbs and homeopathic remedies and
the level of health around the world increased so that people were less prone to these problems?
"No, no, no, no! We don't want to talk about that. We can't earn any money with that!"
And you know, that's what we're actually dealing with.
And a lot of people know that. But when we talk about what is actually in this document, I will try to make it clear:
In reality, it is a business. It always has been.
The local problems with your city council, your health department, your province, your state, your nation.
These are the places where tyranny in laws must be eradicated!
For example, we are talking about the PREP law in the USA, which protects people who cause harm so that they
cannot be sued. This is exactly what the PREP law is about.
And it gives the Minister of Health outrageous powers; unlimited, unrestricted authority to determine just because he says so:
"Well, there could be an emergency in the future.
And here's what we're going to use against it. It doesn't have to be FDA approved.
It doesn't even really have to be approved for emergency use. It could be an experimental product.
And as long as these certain organizations, hospitals, doctors, whatever, use the that I
determine, no one can sue them if you're harmed."
Well, I work in the USA. People can go to repealtheprepact.com to find out about it.
I put together notsafeandnoteffective.com, which is all about the injections.
I have launched PCRfraud.com. It's obvious and it's all about the PCR test.
And I've also set up maskcharade.com. Because the masks are just a joke.
And if people want to find out about the contract, they can go to rejectthetreaty.com.
If you want to know more about the changes , you can go to rejecttheamendments.com.
And if you want to call me, send me an SMS, a mail, Signal, Telegram, or a WhatsApp or whatever, my number is 310 -619 -3055.
I'm really serious about all these things.
These people are trying to kill people. They are trying to murder.
They are trying to cause harm with these products that they claim are life-saving.
And they literally want to make it a general public good.
What this word or phrase means is something like air, oxygen or sunlight.
There is so much of it that you can get everything you ever wanted.
You have used this term literally.
They argued that by mid-2021, poor countries were suffering from vaccine apartheid.
All the wealthy countries would have hogged all these wonderful injections.
We now need so much production capacity around the world that the world is swimming in
medicines, devices, diagnostics and injections.
"Oh, you want another mRNA? How many would you like?
You know, they come straight off the assembly line." That's madness.
Yes, that's it. It's a large-scale eradication.
They don't want countries that don't participate in the program because then we would see proof that the people
there don't die from the vaccinations if they don't get the vaccinations. It's about population reduction.
Well, James, it looks like the average citizen needs to be aware and engaged and active with this.
The deadline for rejecting last year's amendments to the 'International Health Regulations' expires in July.
That is very important. They also say that is putting on a show.
Eventually, they will speak up and really push this pandemic agreement forward.
But we have to start talking. We need to have an open debate.
So we are ready for it. So we can discuss it when the media barrage comes.
They will probably say that the World Health Assembly will adopt the agreement.
But the agreement states that you cannot sign it until you have also included the PABS annex.
It's a head game. "We took it, but we can't sign it. See you next year."
And if that's the case, if that happened, then I know I'll spend the next year pointing out how absurd it
would be to spend billions of dollars making biological weapons to harm people. How on earth?
So in my view, in my optimistic view, they are setting the stage for their own destruction, because if
people understand what they are doing, any reasonable person can realize that WHO has to go.
Excellent. Well, in that case, I hope that perhaps we can arrange another interview as the July deadline approaches.
We will stay in touch. Thank you James Roguski for your time today.
Thank you!