1
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2
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Siyajabula ukwamukela uStefan Schubert engxoxweni yethu namuhla.

3
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UMnu Schubert ungumphoyisa wakudala, intatheli nochwepheshe
wezokuphepha owaziwayo, futhi ungumbhali wezincwadi

4
00:00:08,874 --> 00:00:12,438
ezahlukahlukene, kuhlanganisa nezinye
ezidayisa kakhulu ezifana neDer geheime Krieg gegen

5
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Deutschland (Impi Eyimfihlo Eya eJalimane).

6
00:00:15,129 --> 00:00:19,687
Izincwadi zakhe zisuselwa emsebenzini wakhe
wangaphambilini njengomphoyisa futhi zibhekana kabanzi

7
00:00:19,687 --> 00:00:23,338
nezihloko zokuphepha kwangaphakathi, ubugebengu nokufuduka.

8
00:00:23,338 --> 00:00:26,492
Mnu Schubert, lokhu kungu-interview yakho yokuqala ne-Kla.TV.

9
00:00:26,492 --> 00:00:32,375
Ungathanda ukuzethula kubabukeli bethu
futhi ubatshele kancane ngemvelaphi yakho?

10
00:00:32,375 --> 00:00:34,552
Yebo, ntambama emnandi. Ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokungimema.

11
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Yebo, usuvele utshele ingxenye enkulu
yayo, empeleni ungumphoyisa wakudala.

12
00:00:39,146 --> 00:00:45,048
Bengingihlala ngixoxa izindaba emaphathini, emihlanganweni
yomndeni, phakathi kwabangane, kwathi-ke abantu bathi, "Kufanele

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00:00:45,048 --> 00:00:48,690
ukubhale phansi lokho," futhi yilokho engangingenisa ekubhaleni.

14
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Manje sekukhona izincwadi eziyishumi nambili,
ngicabanga ukuthi ezine noma ezinhlanu zazo

15
00:00:51,397 --> 00:00:53,149
ziyizincwadi ezidayisa kakhulu zika-Spiegel.

16
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Manje, ngaphambi kokuthi uhlu lwezincwadi ezidayiswa kakhulu
lweSpiegel luguqulwe ngendlela eyenza kungabi nokwenzeka kunoma

17
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ubani, masithi, osemithonjeni ezimele ukufinyelela kulolu hlu,
okuyinkinga ehlukile ngokuphelele, ngiphinde ngasungula isiteshi

18
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se-YouTube ezinyangeni eziyisishiyagalombili
ezedlule, ngicabanga, esibizwa ngeSchubert's

19
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Lagemeldung, lapho ngithumela khona nsuku zonke.

20
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Ngingajabula kakhulu uma wonke umuntu engavakashela, ebhalisa,
futhi ebhala okuthile kumazwana. Ekugcineni, ngiphinde ngenze

21
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izingxoxo njalo nezinye izinhlobo zemidiya, kuye
ngokuthi kwenzekani, futhi ngeshwa, kulezi zinsuku

22
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kunezinto eziningi ezenzekayo, kufanele kushiwo.

23
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Kuthiwa unoxhumano oluhle neziphathimandla
zezokuphepha, amaphoyisa kanye nezinsizakalo ezimfihlo.

24
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Kwenzeke kanjani lokho?
Ngokuvamile, lezi zindilinga azifinyeleleki.

25
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:47,467
Yebo, ingxenye ngoba nami ngivela kulelo banga, vele. Ngahambela
izifundo zokuqeqeshwa futhi ngasebenza eminyangweni ehlukene

26
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nasemagunyeni ahlukene, futhi abantu engangisebenza nabo ngaleso
sikhathi nabo bakhuphuka ezikhundleni futhi baphumelela

27
00:01:53,253 --> 00:01:59,996
emisebenzini yabo. Futhi kuyiqiniso ukuthi ngemva kokushicilelwa
kwezincwadi zokuqala, abaningi babo baxhumana nami.

28
00:01:59,996 --> 00:02:02,703
Ngemva kwalokho ngenza abantu abasha
engangihlangana nabo, futhi sengithole amanye

29
00:02:02,703 --> 00:02:04,345
amadokhumenti ebhokisini lezincwadi njalo njalo.

30
00:02:04,345 --> 00:02:11,916
Ngakho-ke kunjalo, indaba isisabalale phakathi kweziphathimandla
zezokuphepha, ngakho-ke ngempela nginolwazi oluhle.

31
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Yebo, lokho kusho ukuthi unenethiwekhi
ebanzi, ngakho-ke ungakwazi ukufinyelela kulwazi

32
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ongasoze wakwazi ukuluthola ngenye indlela.

33
00:02:21,492 --> 00:02:29,357
Impela, yebo, kodwa manje sekukhona ingcindezi eziphathimandla
nakubaphoyisa ngabanye ukuze bavumbule ukuphulwa kwamalungelo.

34
00:02:29,357 --> 00:02:31,561
Futhi sekuyoba nzima kakhulu ukuhlangana.

35
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Akwenzeki ngocingo futhi, futhi
sekungekho okwenzeka isikhathi eside.

36
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Ngakho-ke abantu abangaphandle abazi nhlobo ingcindezi eyakhiwe
ngaphakathi kweziphathimandla yokuthi zithule ngezinto

37
00:02:41,878 --> 00:02:47,167
ezingazange zenziwe, futhi zihambisane nokumbozwa
okwenziwa ngabaphathi bazo bezepolitiki.

38
00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:50,969
Ngakho-ke kunezinto eziningi ezingalungile kakhulu lapha.

39
00:02:50,969 --> 00:02:54,461
Yebo, ngakho ake siqale ngesihloko sokufihla izinto.

40
00:02:54,461 --> 00:03:01,601
Ngo-2016, u-Anis Amri wenza ukuhlasela emakethe
yamaKhisimusi eBerlin, eqhuba iloli eliqhuba phakathi kwesixuku.

41
00:03:01,601 --> 00:03:05,975
Ukuhlasela kokuqala okukhulu kwabanqobi
be-Islam eJalimane emlandweni wakamuva.

42
00:03:05,975 --> 00:03:08,491
Ubhalile incwadi ethi, U-Anis Amri noHulumeni Wefederal.

43
00:03:08,491 --> 00:03:14,227
Futhi lapho, ubhekisela ocwaningweni lwakho
namafayela owawuhlanganisile, ubhala ukuthi

44
00:03:14,227 --> 00:03:18,355
iziphathimandla zezokuphepha zazazi kahle u-Anis Amri.

45
00:03:18,355 --> 00:03:22,712
Ukuhlasela kwenzeka ngaphansi kwamehlo abagadi abaningi.

46
00:03:22,712 --> 00:03:26,992
Futhi uthi naphezu kokuboshwa kwakhe kaningi
ngaphambilini, umsolwa wanikezwa inkululeko

47
00:03:26,992 --> 00:03:29,954
ephelele futhi wavunyelwa ngisho ukubaleka kamuva.

48
00:03:29,954 --> 00:03:34,809
Kwabe sekufihlwa konke. Lezo zinsolo zimbi kakhulu.

49
00:03:34,809 --> 00:03:39,410
Ngoba lokho kusho ukuthi uhulumeni
kazwelonke wamukela ngenhloso ukufa kwabantu

50
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abayishumi nambili nokulimala kwabanye abangama-70.

51
00:03:43,168 --> 00:03:47,380
Unobufakazi buni onabo ngalezi zimangalo ezinzima?

52
00:03:47,380 --> 00:03:50,085
Yebo, ngempela, lezi zinsolo ezinzima kakhulu.

53
00:03:50,085 --> 00:03:54,031
Futhi ngithole amadokhumenti
angama-20 000 kuzo zonke iziphathimandla.

54
00:03:54,031 --> 00:03:57,827
Futhi ngakwazi ukukhuluma ngqo
nomcwaningi wezobugebengu bokwesabisa obebambe

55
00:03:57,827 --> 00:04:00,505
iqhaza ngqo kuleli cala, owangikhombisa lokhu.

56
00:04:00,505 --> 00:04:06,401
Uthe sesizama ukubopha u-Anis Amri iminyaka eyodwa
nengxenye. Asikwazi ukuthola umyalelo wokubopha.

57
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Saba nemihlangano emine ubuso nobuso nabaphathi abathi, "shiya le
ndoda yedwa," naphezu kwezobugebengu obukhulu, naphezu

58
00:04:13,089 --> 00:04:19,634
kokuhlaselwa ngemese emkhakheni wezidakamizwa, naphezu
kokuxhumana ngqo ne-IS eyayisebenza kakhulu ngaleso sikhathi.

59
00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:25,325
Kwakuyiseli ngqo u-Anis Amri; u-Anis Amri akayena
umenzi wedwa, kodwa wayenethiwekhi enkulu ye-IS

60
00:04:25,325 --> 00:04:28,790
eJalimane, eyayihlanganisa futhi u-Abu Wallah, isibonelo.

61
00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:32,064
Okwamanje usesilingweni futhi ufuna
ukuvimbela ukuxoshwa kwakhe ezweni.

62
00:04:32,064 --> 00:04:37,972
Futhi yilokho kwakuyisizathu sengqondo yami yokuthi izinsizakalo
eziyimfihlo, kusukela eHhovisi Lwefederal Lokuvikela

63
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uMthethosisekelo kuya ku-CIA, zenze konke
okusemandleni azo ukuvimba amaphoyisa ekwenzeni umsebenzi wawo.

64
00:04:42,990 --> 00:04:49,475
Ukuze babophe lo muntu oyingozi, owawazi wonke umuntu ukuthi
uzokwenza ukuhlasela kobuphekula hhayi 'uma' kodwa 'nini', ukuze

65
00:04:49,475 --> 00:04:53,780
bafinyelele kubantu abamsekela, ngoba ucingo
lwakhe lwalulalelwa futhi lwalulawulwa

66
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ngesathelayithi ngomyalelo owayehlela amakamu e-IS eLibya.

67
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Futhi yilokho ngqo abantu
baseMelika abakwenzile ngenhliziyo ebandayo.

68
00:04:59,980 --> 00:05:04,469
Futhi yilokho okwabangela ukuhlasela eBreitscheidplatz ekuqaleni.

69
00:05:04,469 --> 00:05:11,140
Futhi kungani izinsizakalo eziyimfihlo
zazinentshisekelo yokuvumela u-Anis Amri ahambe?

70
00:05:11,140 --> 00:05:15,678
Okokuqala, vele, igolide elisha
lezinsizakalo zolwazi: idatha nezqoqo ledatha.

71
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U-Anis Amri wayenxhumano eqondile nabahleli
bobugebengu be-IS ekampini yezempi eLibya.

72
00:05:21,660 --> 00:05:32,814
Futhi unjalo, usesimweni samaSulumane, wafika eJalimane edlula
eLampedusa nase-Italy, lapho ayesejele njengomsolwa wobugebengu.

73
00:05:32,814 --> 00:05:36,632
Abantu be-IS bamsekela futhi bamsize yonke indawo.

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Kwakuwunethiwekhi abantu ababefuna ukuyiveza.

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00:05:38,568 --> 00:05:41,120
Futhi, vele, ukuxhumana okuqondile neLibya.

76
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:47,328
Futhi kungakapheli sikhathi eside ngemuva kokuhlaselwa
okubulalayo kwabaphangi eMakethe kaKhisimusi eBerlin, kwaba

77
00:05:47,328 --> 00:05:52,938
ngamaMelika abashaya amabhomu ezinkampini zabaphangi zika-Anis
Amri eLibya besebenzisa iqembu lezindiza

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00:05:52,938 --> 00:05:59,080
eliphathwe umkhumbi wokuthwala izindiza oluvela
eMediterranean, babulala abaphangi be-IS abangaphezu kuka-70.

79
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:05,355
Futhi umkhulumeli wePentagon wathi kanjalo. Futhi lo mkhulumeli
wePentagon waphinde wathi okuthile okungakaze kuxoxwe ngempela

80
00:06:05,355 --> 00:06:09,103
eziteshini zezindaba zaseJalimane, okungukuthi
lo mkhankaso wezempi wawuhloselwe labo

81
00:06:09,103 --> 00:06:11,645
ababephethe ukuhlasela, njengesenzo sokuziphindisela.

82
00:06:11,645 --> 00:06:13,820
Futhi ngibhalile konke lokhu encwadini yami.

83
00:06:13,820 --> 00:06:18,854
Ngigcine imithombo engu-600 nengu-700,
kuhlanganisa neziteshi zezindaba zaseMelika.

84
00:06:18,854 --> 00:06:24,024
Ukuze kuvele isithombe esicacile
kakhulu futhi esingenakuphikiswa lapho.

85
00:06:24,024 --> 00:06:28,000
Futhi nawe uthi i-CIA ibambe iqhaza?

86
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:36,899
Yebo, kunjalo. Futhi kuyacaca ngokuphelele ukuthi lolu hlelo
lwamadron kanye nohlelo – olunegama lohlelo olwahlukile,

87
00:06:36,899 --> 00:06:45,394
igama lenkinga yezempi – lokubhubhisa i-IS ezinkampini
zaseLibya. Futhi lokho kwakuyinhlelo ye-CIA ikakhulu.

88
00:06:45,394 --> 00:06:47,001
Mnu Schubert, ukuze kucace nje.

89
00:06:47,001 --> 00:06:53,606
Lokho kusho ukuthi uhulumeni wase-US wayalela
iziphathimandla zezokuphepha ukuthi zingamkhathazi

90
00:06:53,606 --> 00:06:58,242
u-Anis Amri ukuze zizuze zona. Ngiyakuqonda kahle lokhu?

91
00:06:58,242 --> 00:07:00,820
Yebo, impela nami anginayo
ubufakazi obungangabazeki obuvela e-CIA.

92
00:07:00,820 --> 00:07:07,014
Akufakiwe emibhalweni, nakuba kunemibhalo engu-20
000, kuhlanganisa nemibhalo yenkonzo eyimfihlo.

93
00:07:07,014 --> 00:07:13,425
Kodwa kuyacaca ukuthi amaMelika bamfaka ngokuphelele
i-wiretap, bamqapha ngokuphelele, ngomyalelo we-GPS.

94
00:07:13,425 --> 00:07:23,767
Kukhona futhi ukubhekwa ngesikhathi sangempela
kwengxoxo yakhe nomholi we-IS eLibya, umholi wobuphekula,

95
00:07:23,767 --> 00:07:30,632
abayenza ngesi-Arabhu. Futhi yashintshwa ngasikhathi sinye.

96
00:07:30,632 --> 00:07:35,360
Lokhu kukhombisa izinga lokuqapha elisetshenziswe
lapho nokuthi liyisibheke esibalulekile kangakanani.

97
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,820
Futhi wayengabanjwa kudala. Usewenze
izenzo eziningana zokwephula umthetho.

98
00:07:38,820 --> 00:07:42,438
Waphinde wanqatshelwa ukwenza kanjalo
lapho izinto zimshisa kakhulu eJalimane.

99
00:07:42,438 --> 00:07:47,420
Wayefuna ukubaleka aye kwamanye amazwe. Wavinjwa ukuphuma ezweni.

100
00:07:47,420 --> 00:07:55,573
Anis Amri wabuzwa imibuzo wathi manje
uzoboshwa ukuze adluliselwe kwamanye amazwe.

101
00:07:55,573 --> 00:07:57,600
Wathi, ngifuna ukuphuma ngokuzithandela manje.

102
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:05,051
Awudingi ukungigxusha ezweni. Ngifuna ukubuyela
eMpumalanga Ephakathi. Futhi uhulumeni kazwelonke uvimbe lokho.

103
00:08:05,051 --> 00:08:12,040
Uhulumeni kazwelonke waqinisekisa ukuthi omunye wabahlanganyeli
bakhe wathunyelwa eMorocco ebusuku ngemuva kohlaselo.

104
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,381
Kukhona ubufakazi obuphakamisa ukuthi
wayengumhloli ophindwe kabili wezinsizakalo

105
00:08:16,381 --> 00:08:18,415
eziyimfihlo zaseMorocco futhi wayesebenza ne-IS.

106
00:08:18,415 --> 00:08:23,772
Akasolwa. Ngokombono wami, bekufanele abekwe phambi kwenkantolo,
kodwa esikhundleni salokho waxoshwa eMnyangweni Wezangaphakathi

107
00:08:23,772 --> 00:08:26,677
weFederal ngomkhankaso wokusebenza ngasese nangobuqili.

108
00:08:26,677 --> 00:08:31,116
Womuntu wesifazane ophethe lokhu wanikezwa nguNkk
Merkel isikhundla sommeli eMelika. Yilokho

109
00:08:31,116 --> 00:08:34,558
okukhombisa ukuthi leli cala lonke lafika phezulu kangakanani.

110
00:08:34,558 --> 00:08:40,161
Kuyacaca kimi ukuthi amaMelika, impela, namaJalimane abumpumputhe
ngokuphelele uma kukhulunywa ngobuphekula bamaSulumane.

111
00:08:40,161 --> 00:08:45,040
Bancike ngokuphelele kumaMelika,
abalalela konke nomuntu wonke lapha.

112
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:50,056
Futhi lapho amaMelika ethi, "Awumboshi yena,"
iziphathimandla zaseJalimane zishaya uhlangothi

113
00:08:50,056 --> 00:08:54,000
lwezinyawo ndawonye bese zenza ngqo njengoba zibatshelwa.

114
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,202
Yebo. Yebo, masibuyele esimweni samanje.

115
00:08:58,202 --> 00:09:04,668
Izincwadi zabo zinezinhloko ezifana nokuthi Ukuqedwa kokuzinza
kweJalimane, Ukulahleka kokuphepha kwangaphakathi

116
00:09:04,668 --> 00:09:11,065
nangaphandle, kanye Nempi Yombango Iza: Izimpawu
Zokuvuka Nezinguquko Ezinkulu Emadolobheni aseJalimane.

117
00:09:11,065 --> 00:09:17,891
Manje, uhulumeni omusha kazwelonke usethumele umgomo
wokubuyisela ukuhleleka lapha nokubuyisa ukulawula imingcele.

118
00:09:17,891 --> 00:09:23,008
Ucabanga ukuthi inhlangano emnyama
nebomvu izoletha inguquko engcono lapha?

119
00:09:23,008 --> 00:09:26,506
Ngokungeziwe, ngabhala ngokudungeka kweJalimane ngo-2016.

120
00:09:26,506 --> 00:09:29,220
Ngaleso sikhathi, kwakusabhekwa
njengokwesabisa nokuphuphisa izixuku.

121
00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:34,300
Manje sesiyibona nsuku zonke
ezindabeni, nakuba okuningi kufihlwe ezindabeni.

122
00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:37,733
Kodwa abantu bangazibonela ngokwabo lapho
behamba ezindaweni eziphakathi kwamadolobha abo ukuthi

123
00:09:37,733 --> 00:09:40,352
yini eyenzekile eminyakeni embalwa nje kuphela.

124
00:09:40,352 --> 00:09:45,455
Futhi yingakho le ncwadi, ngeshwa, ngeshwa, konke kwaba yiqiniso.

125
00:09:45,455 --> 00:09:52,874
Futhi lokho kwakuyisizathu sami sokuqhubeka, ukuvusa abantu.

126
00:09:52,874 --> 00:09:56,866
Futhi ingxenye yesibili yombuzo, ubomvu noluhlaza,
empeleni ubomvu noluhlaza, ngithi ubomvu nomnyama.

127
00:09:56,866 --> 00:10:01,188
Yebo, ukuphuthelwa ulimi empeleni
kuyingxenye yohlelo, ngoba kufana nobomvu noluhlaza.

128
00:10:01,188 --> 00:10:04,360
Red-Black empeleni iyaqhubeka lapho
inhlangano ye-traffic light eyekile khona.

129
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,928
Lawa lawulwa emngceleni ayisiboniso nje esingenalutho oluwusizo.

130
00:10:08,928 --> 00:10:13,435
Akukho ukuxoshwa okuqhubekayo, ngisho
naseziboshweni, hhayi ngisho nakuma-Islamists.

131
00:10:13,435 --> 00:10:17,340
Futhi lokho akushintshi nhlobo. Akukho
ukuguqulwa kwenqubomgomo yokufuduka.

132
00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:22,024
Ngokusho kwabezindaba eziyinhloko, ukuguqulwa
kwenqubomgomo yokufuduka kukhona kuphela ukuze

133
00:10:22,024 --> 00:10:24,807
kugcinwe abantu bethule ukuze bangavoti enye iqembu.

134
00:10:24,807 --> 00:10:31,183
Futhi ngeshwa, akukho okuzoshintsha kube
ngcono ngaphansi kokhetho lukahulumeni lo.

135
00:10:31,183 --> 00:10:36,277
Futhi lokho kusho ukuthi abezepolitiki abafuni ngempela
ukulungisa isimo. Ingabe kukhona abazenzeli inzuzo ngasese?

136
00:10:36,277 --> 00:10:41,432
Ilobhi engabonakali, esebenza ngaphandle kwesibanzi samaqembu?

137
00:10:41,432 --> 00:10:46,955
Kune abaningi abazuza kulokhu. Ukufuduka
okuningi sekuyimodeli enkulu yebhizinisi.

138
00:10:46,955 --> 00:10:55,663
Bheka nje lezi zinkokhelo zokuqasha ezesabekayo, eziqoqwa
izinhlangano zenhlalakahle ezifana ne-Red Cross, i-Caritas,

139
00:10:55,663 --> 00:10:59,457
i-AWO kanye ne-SPD eduze ne-Workers' Welfare Association.

140
00:10:59,457 --> 00:11:05,999
Osomabhizinisi bezakhiwo, amabhange amakhulu aseMelika, iWestern
Union, abazuza amabhiliyoni ngenxa yemali ethunyelwa eJalimane

141
00:11:05,999 --> 00:11:11,718
naseNtshonalanga Yurophu, ingxenye evela emalini yezokuphepha
komphakathi, ingxenye evela kobugebengu, emazweni

142
00:11:11,718 --> 00:11:17,290
abo, lapho inzuzo yandiswa khona ngemali
yokuphatha ephezulu nezinga lokushintshanisa eliphansi.

143
00:11:17,290 --> 00:11:22,573
Futhi, vele, yonke lezi zingqalasizinda zezinhlangano
ezingekho ngaphansi kukahulumeni, ezisekelwa ngqo nguhulumeni,

144
00:11:22,573 --> 00:11:25,764
okungukuthi izinhlangano ezingekho ngaphansi kukahulumeni.

145
00:11:25,764 --> 00:11:31,245
Ngakho-ke lelo yimodeli yebhizinisi enkulu kakhulu.
Futhi yilokho futhi esinye sezizathu zokuthi abantu

146
00:11:31,245 --> 00:11:35,840
abaningi kakhulu banentshisekelo ekutheni kungashintshi lutho.

147
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:42,182
Yebo. Lokho kusho ukuthi abezepolitiki
abanakho ngempela ukuthakasela ukuguqula izinto.

148
00:11:42,182 --> 00:11:45,251
Kuthiwa kunomcimbi wombukiso.

149
00:11:45,251 --> 00:11:51,888
Kunezidlali eziningi ezizuzayo ngasemva
kwezithunzi, njengamabhange kanye nazo zonke

150
00:11:51,888 --> 00:11:57,482
lezo zinhlangano ezinkulu ozibalulile, ama-NGO.

151
00:11:57,482 --> 00:12:01,663
Ngakolunye uhlangothi, ungabona ukuthi
abokufika ngokwabo bangabantu abahlaselwayo noma

152
00:12:01,663 --> 00:12:03,503
abasetshenziswayo yilabo abazuza ngasemva.

153
00:12:03,503 --> 00:12:09,202
Amakhaya abo, njengeSyria, i-Afghanistan,
i-Iraq neLibya, abebhoshwe egameni lendemokhrasi.

154
00:12:09,202 --> 00:12:13,554
Bese beza lapha ngamanga, mhlawumbe befuna ukuhlangana.

155
00:12:13,554 --> 00:12:16,600
Abanye bayadideka ngokwemvelo ngenxa yezimpi.

156
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,694
Lokhu kuyatshala inzondo futhi kudala
umhlabathi onomvundla wokuthi abantu babe yizimbangi.

157
00:12:20,694 --> 00:12:24,101
Kanti-ke ngakolunye uhlangothi, kunezindawo
ezingavunyelwe ukuya kuzo eJalimane eziya zanda

158
00:12:24,101 --> 00:12:26,518
lapho ngisho amaphoyisa engazami ukuya khona.

159
00:12:26,518 --> 00:12:30,392
Bese bethi, yebo, sizovimbela imimese noma
sandise ukuqapha izakhamuzi

160
00:12:30,392 --> 00:12:34,708
njengesisombululo. Kodwa lokho akuxazululi inkinga nhlobo.

161
00:12:34,708 --> 00:12:39,852
Ingabe unombono wokuthi kunohlelo oluqhutshwayo lapha?

162
00:12:39,852 --> 00:12:43,391
Kukhona lo mqondo we-Freemasonry yezinga
eliphezulu: ukuhleleka okuvela ekudidekeni.

163
00:12:43,391 --> 00:12:49,763
Lokhu kusho ukuthi umphakathi ugcinwa esimweni sokucindezeleka
kuze kube yilapho befuna ubuholi obuqinile

164
00:12:49,763 --> 00:12:54,883
futhi bemukela izixazululo
ezazingenakucatshangelwa ngaphambilini. Ingabe kunjalo?

165
00:12:54,883 --> 00:12:57,406
Yebo, inkinga ukuthi empeleni sinodweshu.

166
00:12:57,406 --> 00:13:02,586
Sinemibango eminingi yokudonsa ukunaka ukuze kugwenywe
izindaba ezibalulekile, njengale ndawo evinjelwe imimese.

167
00:13:02,586 --> 00:13:08,953
Akuyona inkinga yamabanga, kodwa inkinga yalabo abahlasela
ngamabanga. Yingakho lokhu kuyimpikiswano yokudonsa ukunaka.

168
00:13:08,953 --> 00:13:11,951
Muva nje, othile walimaza omunye ngesaha yamandla.

169
00:13:11,951 --> 00:13:15,756
Khona-ke maduzane kuzofanele futhi
sifake izindawo ezingenazo izihogela.

170
00:13:15,756 --> 00:13:22,960
Futhi ngempela, kuyiqiniso futhi ukuthi lezi zimo, ezidalwe
ngabaphathi bezepolitiki ngokwabo, manje sezisetshenziswa

171
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,183
ukudlulisela imithetho yokuphepha eqinile kakhulu.

172
00:13:26,183 --> 00:13:30,483
Ukugcina idatha, ukuqapha ngocingo
lweselula, ukuvinjelwa okwengeziwe ezinkundleni

173
00:13:30,483 --> 00:13:33,470
zokuxhumana, ukulawula okwengeziwe imibono.

174
00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:41,908
Futhi lezi zinyathelo azihloselwe izigebengu noma abantu
abayingozi, kodwa zihloselwe izakhamuzi kanye neziteshi

175
00:13:41,908 --> 00:13:46,333
zezindaba, njengeCompaq, isibonelo, eziphikise lezi zimo.

176
00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:53,785
Futhi lokhu kukhombisa ukuthi lokhu akwenzeki ngokungahleliwe,
kodwa kuwumhlelo, kuwuhlelo lwezinjongo oluqhubekayo.

177
00:13:53,785 --> 00:13:57,364
Futhi ngokulimaza izwe lakhe uqobo,
ngokulimaza abantu abahlala ezweni lakhe.

178
00:13:57,364 --> 00:14:01,798
Futhi yilokho okubhubhisayo ngesimo
esasingiseso kusukela ngo-2015, esiba sibi

179
00:14:01,798 --> 00:14:05,100
kakhulu futhi sifinyelela phezulu minyaka yonke.

180
00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:12,027
Yebo, uma uthi lokhu kwenziwa ngenhloso,
umphumela wokugcina uzoba iJalimane elingazinzile.

181
00:14:12,027 --> 00:14:17,082
Ingabe ezombusazwe ziyazuza ngalokhu?
Ngisho, sekuba nzima kakhulu ukuyilawula.

182
00:14:17,082 --> 00:14:22,560
Manje uzwa ukuthi bakha izithiyo ezinkulu
ezizungeze iBundestag nokunye, bezivikela kakhulu kakhulu.

183
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,775
Ngesinye isikhathi, kuzoba yingozi kulaba bafana namantombazane.

184
00:14:26,775 --> 00:14:33,486
Yebo, bavikelwe kahle. Bane-limousini esemthethweni
enezingqimba zensimbi kanye nokuvikelwa kwe-BKA okunamasosha.

185
00:14:33,486 --> 00:14:38,305
Abasesaphili impilo evamile, abasesayi ukuthenga bodwa.

186
00:14:38,305 --> 00:14:42,656
Lokho kusho ukuthi abakuboni nhlobo. Kuyibhulbhu evaliwe.

187
00:14:42,656 --> 00:14:47,562
Manje isithiyo se-AHA sakhiwa phezu
kweReichstag. Yilokho okubizwa ngokuthi.

188
00:14:47,562 --> 00:14:53,245
Ngakho-ke, uhlobo oluthile lwesithiyo setanki
oluvimbela ukuthi ungashayeli lapho ngemoto.

189
00:14:53,245 --> 00:15:00,378
Eqinisweni, sebeqhubeka nokuzivalela ngaphakathi, futhi
manje isifunda sikahulumeni siyandiswa nakakhulu, nakuba

190
00:15:00,378 --> 00:15:04,415
kungekho amabhiliyoni atholakalayo, amabhiliyoni esikweletini.

191
00:15:04,415 --> 00:15:09,565
Manje i-chancellery iyandiswa futhi ngentengo ecishe ibe
yibhiliyoni elilodwa lama-euro, nakuba isivele ingomunye

192
00:15:09,565 --> 00:15:12,507
wezinhloko-dolobha zikahulumeni ezinkulu kakhulu emhlabeni.

193
00:15:12,507 --> 00:15:19,232
Ngakho-ke empeleni kuyinqubomgomo ephikisana
nezwe lakhe siqu kanye nabantu bakhe siqu.

194
00:15:19,232 --> 00:15:23,602
Incwadi yakho yakamuva inesihloko
esifanayo, Impi Eyimfihlo Ngokumelene NeJalimane.

195
00:15:23,602 --> 00:15:30,640
Futhi isihlokwana sithi? Izwe
elihloselwe ukuhlaselwa ngabaphathi bomhlaba.

196
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,338
Ubani olwa impi lapha? Futhi yiziphi izikhulu ezikhulunywa ngazo?

197
00:15:33,338 --> 00:15:36,800
Futhi le mpi ilwiwa kanjani?

198
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,760
Yebo, lokhu akuyona impi nje
njengoba sasikucabanga ngaphambilini.

199
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,516
Iqembu A liyalwa neQembu B, kodwa
sinempi enamahlangothi amaningi.

200
00:15:43,516 --> 00:15:48,475
Sisesimweni sempi yezomnotho neJalimane, uma ubheka amaMelika.

201
00:15:48,475 --> 00:15:55,189
Kukhona futhi uJoe Biden, engivumelana ngokuphelele
nengqopha-mlando yezophenyo uSimon Herschel eMelika, othi

202
00:15:55,189 --> 00:16:02,545
uhulumeni kaJoe Biden wadiliza iNord Stream 2 ngoba babefuna
ukusihlukanisa neRussia negesi yayo yaseRussia eshibhile.

203
00:16:02,545 --> 00:16:05,856
Manje sithenga igesi ye-LNG
emdaka, ebizayo kakhulu evela eMelika.

204
00:16:05,856 --> 00:16:11,910
Lena futhi impi ephikisana neJalimane, ephikisana
nokuhlinzekwa kwayo kwamandla, ephikisana nomnotho wayo.

205
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:18,056
Sine umkhakha wezezimali onjenge-BlackRock, owaphinde
wasabalalisa le mfundiso yezimo zezulu ngaphambi kokuthi

206
00:16:18,056 --> 00:16:21,618
manje izihlukanise nayo. Kwabe sekuyimodeli yebhizinisi.

207
00:16:21,618 --> 00:16:28,090
Lezi zinkampani ezinkulu zama-hedge fund, ingxenye yazo,
sezixhase izinhlangano ezingekho ngaphansi kukahulumeni

208
00:16:28,090 --> 00:16:35,488
eziphathelene nezimo zezulu ukuze zikwazi ukucindezela abaphathi
bezepolitiki ukuthi baguqule izimboni zabo zisebenzise imishini

209
00:16:35,488 --> 00:16:39,051
emisha, lapho imboni yezimali isivele itshale khona imali.

210
00:16:39,051 --> 00:16:46,205
Ngakho-ke lokhu kungumshini omkhulu kakhulu wokwabela kabusha,
njengase-COVID-19, lapho kwakukhona imali eningi

211
00:16:46,205 --> 00:16:52,065
kakhulu, lapho imali yathathwa kubantu
abasemazingeni aphansi yabe isabelwa embonini yezemithi.

212
00:16:52,065 --> 00:16:56,931
Futhi empeleni siyabona lokhu kuzo zonke
izindawo, yingakho isihloko sencwadi savela.

213
00:16:56,931 --> 00:17:02,081
Yebo, kubizwa nangokuthi impi ehlanganisiwe,
okusho impi engalwi ngemikhali ejwayelekile.

214
00:17:02,081 --> 00:17:07,347
Yiziphi izinhloso ocabanga ukuthi zisekhona ngemuva
kwalokhu, ngaphandle kokuthi abadlali ngabanye bazicebise?

215
00:17:07,347 --> 00:17:14,974
Yebo, leso isizathu esinamandla kakhulu. Izinzuzo, amabhiliyoni
ezinzuzo, amandla nomthelela, impela, kanye nokungabi

216
00:17:14,974 --> 00:17:18,740
nacala, ukuze umuntu ahlale evikelekile ekumangalelweni.

217
00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:21,204
Lokhu futhi kubonakala kakhulu eJalimane.

218
00:17:21,204 --> 00:17:26,428
Kwamanye amazwe aseYurophu naseMelika, kukhona futhi
abezepolitiki abasebenza izigwebo ejele, ezinye zazo zihlala

219
00:17:26,428 --> 00:17:29,180
iminyaka eminingi, ngenxa yokuntengantenga nokukhwabanisa.

220
00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:36,083
EJalimane, akekho umpolitiki osezingeni
eliphezulu oboshwe elindele ukwahlulelwa.

221
00:17:36,083 --> 00:17:43,507
Ngisho eHabeck, lapho ihhovisi lommeli womphakathi belingakaze
libe nesibindi sokuthatha isinyathelo, futhi sinalo ihhovisi

222
00:17:43,507 --> 00:17:48,882
lommeli womphakathi elibophezela imiyalelo yezombusazwe, kodwa
lalinobuqhawe bokumhlola ngokwephula

223
00:17:48,882 --> 00:17:54,508
umthetho wokuhlambalaza inkosi, lowo
ayewusebenzisile yena uqobo emakhulu ezikhathi kubantu.

224
00:17:54,508 --> 00:18:03,697
Kwathi-ke amaqembu amadala e-Bundestag awaphikisa lokhu, okuyinto
engenangqondo, evikela abezepolitiki bawo ekubekweni icala

225
00:18:03,697 --> 00:18:13,941
okuncane kakhulu, kanti ngasikhathi sinye avusa izandla
ngokushesha kubaphikisi bezepolitiki bese eqala ukusesha izindlu.

226
00:18:13,941 --> 00:18:25,343
Yebo, kodwa-ke uthi ekugcineni kuwumdlalo
wezepolitiki owenziwa phambi kwethu, okuyingxenye yokudida.

227
00:18:25,343 --> 00:18:31,646
Ngicabanga nje ukuthi kubalulekile ukungalahlekelwa ukugxila
kulokho, yingakho ngabuza ngama-elite abekhona ngemuva,

228
00:18:31,646 --> 00:18:39,060
ngoba noma yiliphi udaba olubheka kulo, kuhlala
kubonakala sengathi yibo abantu abafanayo abaphethe izintambo.

229
00:18:39,060 --> 00:18:42,855
Yebo, uhlala ugcina usebenzisa izintambo ezifanayo.

230
00:18:42,855 --> 00:18:49,516
Ngakho-ke kunokuhlangene kwezombusazwe nezempi, njengase-Ukraine,
futhi manje nangokuhlasela kweMelika e-Iran,

231
00:18:49,516 --> 00:18:56,071
abakwenzile nakuba uDonald Trump ethembise
okuthile okuhlukile ngokuphelele ngaphambi kokhetho.

232
00:18:56,071 --> 00:19:01,540
Ungabona lokho, impela, ungakubona manje
ekuzibekeleni izikhali okukhulu kwe-NATO, i-EU kanye neJalimane.

233
00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:08,995
Ungakubona lokhu emkhakheni wezokwelapha nge-coronavirus, lapho
sethemba ukuthi uBobby Kennedy uzogonyelwa nakakhulu eMelika.

234
00:19:08,995 --> 00:19:13,759
Angicabangi ukuthi isiqalile ngempela okwamanje.
Abantu abaningi babe nethemba lokuthola okwengeziwe.

235
00:19:13,759 --> 00:19:22,112
Yebo, kuwumlando ongapheli phakathi
kokuhle nobubi, uma ufuna ukukubiza kanjalo.

236
00:19:22,112 --> 00:19:26,592
Uthe uTrump wathembisa okuthile
okuhlukile kunalokho akwenza ngempela.

237
00:19:26,592 --> 00:19:30,021
Ungakubona ngokucacile kakhulu kuFriedrich Merz.

238
00:19:30,021 --> 00:19:38,460
Ngisho nezithembiso zokhetho ezibaluleke kakhulu
zonke seziphukile kungakapheli izinyanga eziyisithupha.

239
00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:43,466
Ucabanga ukuthi abantu bazokwazi ukubekezelela lokhu isikhathi
esingakanani futhi bazovumela ukuthi baholwe ngempumulo,

240
00:19:43,466 --> 00:19:47,480
kokubili ngakolunye uhlangothi nangakolunye uhlangothi lolwandle?

241
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,340
Ngakho-ke, kimi, uFriedrich Merz ungumkhohlisi wokhetho
omkhulu kunabo bonke kusukela ekupheleni kweMpi Yezwe Yesibili.

242
00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:58,833
Futhi ngikholelwa ukuthi manje sesisuku lwama-54 noma
lwama-55 lokuqhaqhazela kwezikweletu, lapho akhohlisa khona.

243
00:19:58,833 --> 00:20:07,045
Manje sekubonakale ukuthi ngisho nangaphambi kokhetho waye-oda
umbiko, ngokwami cishe ngama-€9,500, ku-Udo Di Fabio, owayehlose

244
00:20:07,045 --> 00:20:13,769
ukubeka isisekelo salomthetho wokuvimbela izikweletu
kulo Bundestag yakudala, lapho amaGreen ayenamavoti

245
00:20:13,769 --> 00:20:17,735
amaningi kunama-AfD, ukuze kuqhutshwe konke sekulungisiwe.

246
00:20:17,735 --> 00:20:23,940
Kwathi-ke abantu baseJalimane batshelwa ukuthi kwenzeke
isigameko esihlazisayo esihilela uZelensky eWhite House.

247
00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:28,494
Konke lokhu kwakusivele kunqunywe ngaphambi
kokhetho, ngakho-ke kwakuyinkohliso enkulu ekukhethweni.

248
00:20:28,494 --> 00:20:33,820
Futhi uma sasibe nendawo yemidiya esebenzayo
eJalimane, bekumele kube nokwethulwa kwezindaba

249
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:37,088
zansuku zonke kuze kube uFriedrich Merz ehoxa.

250
00:20:37,088 --> 00:20:43,428
Futhi lokhu kukhombisa ukuthi nakuba sinenkinga yezombusazwe
yemvelo, inkinga enkulu kunazo zonke, impela,

251
00:20:43,428 --> 00:20:49,444
yinkinga yemidiya, amandla emidiya e-ARD, e-ZDF,
emithonjeni emikhulu, e-Spiegel, e-Axel Springer Verlag.

252
00:20:49,444 --> 00:20:52,749
Bathatha isinqumo sokuthi ngeke
sishintshe lesi sikhwekhwe sibe yisikhwekhwe.

253
00:20:52,749 --> 00:20:59,538
Esikhundleni salokho, bakha enye isihloko esiphikisana ne-AfD,
noma imithombo yezindaba ehlukile ithola ngenye

254
00:20:59,538 --> 00:21:05,550
indlela isihloko abangasenza isigungu futhi
badonse ukunaka ngaso. Futhi yilokho inkinga enkulu.

255
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:12,898
Futhi ngikholelwa ukuthi yilokho okwenza abantu bengakakayibuyeli
emigwaqweni, ngoba amandla wezindaba asenamandla kakhulu.

256
00:21:12,898 --> 00:21:15,914
Yebo, usho kahle, lezi zingxabano zilandelana ngokulandelana.

257
00:21:15,914 --> 00:21:18,914
Iyisu elisetshenziswa kaningi kaningi.

258
00:21:18,914 --> 00:21:24,439
Lena yindlela evamile yokwahlukanisa nokubusa, lapho
amaqembu afana nabantu abagonyiwe abaphikisana nabantu

259
00:21:24,439 --> 00:21:28,099
abangagonyiwe, kanye nabantu bendawo abaphikisana nabokufika.

260
00:21:28,099 --> 00:21:29,941
Kodwa asidingi kuwela kulesi sibambiso.

261
00:21:29,941 --> 00:21:34,797
Mnu Schubert, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokwabelana nathi
ngalezi zenzakalo ezididayo namuhla, ngokusibonisa

262
00:21:34,797 --> 00:21:39,328
izintambo nokukhanyisa abalawuli bamapapethi abasemva kwezibuko.

263
00:21:39,328 --> 00:21:44,087
Masakaziseni, babukeli abathandekayo, lolu lwazi ngalezi
zixhumanisi ezibalulekile ukuze sikwazi ukubhekana nenkinga

264
00:21:44,087 --> 00:21:47,861
kusukela emthonjeni wayo futhi umphakathi
onolwazi ukwazi ukubopha labo abasemandleni ukuthi

265
00:21:47,861 --> 00:21:51,020
baphendule. Mnu Schubert, ngiyabonga kakhulu.

266
00:21:51,020 --> 00:21:52,726
Ngizojabula ukwenza lokho, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokungimema.