WEBVTT

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Siyajabula ukwamukela uStefan Schubert engxoxweni yethu namuhla.

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UMnu Schubert ungumphoyisa wakudala, intatheli nochwepheshe
wezokuphepha owaziwayo, futhi ungumbhali wezincwadi

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ezahlukahlukene, kuhlanganisa nezinye
ezidayisa kakhulu ezifana neDer geheime Krieg gegen

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Deutschland (Impi Eyimfihlo Eya eJalimane).

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Izincwadi zakhe zisuselwa emsebenzini wakhe
wangaphambilini njengomphoyisa futhi zibhekana kabanzi

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nezihloko zokuphepha kwangaphakathi, ubugebengu nokufuduka.

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Mnu Schubert, lokhu kungu-interview yakho yokuqala ne-Kla.TV.

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Ungathanda ukuzethula kubabukeli bethu
futhi ubatshele kancane ngemvelaphi yakho?

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Yebo, ntambama emnandi. Ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokungimema.

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Yebo, usuvele utshele ingxenye enkulu
yayo, empeleni ungumphoyisa wakudala.

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Bengingihlala ngixoxa izindaba emaphathini, emihlanganweni
yomndeni, phakathi kwabangane, kwathi-ke abantu bathi, "Kufanele

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ukubhale phansi lokho," futhi yilokho engangingenisa ekubhaleni.

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Manje sekukhona izincwadi eziyishumi nambili,
ngicabanga ukuthi ezine noma ezinhlanu zazo

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ziyizincwadi ezidayisa kakhulu zika-Spiegel.

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Manje, ngaphambi kokuthi uhlu lwezincwadi ezidayiswa kakhulu
lweSpiegel luguqulwe ngendlela eyenza kungabi nokwenzeka kunoma

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ubani, masithi, osemithonjeni ezimele ukufinyelela kulolu hlu,
okuyinkinga ehlukile ngokuphelele, ngiphinde ngasungula isiteshi

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se-YouTube ezinyangeni eziyisishiyagalombili
ezedlule, ngicabanga, esibizwa ngeSchubert's

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Lagemeldung, lapho ngithumela khona nsuku zonke.

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Ngingajabula kakhulu uma wonke umuntu engavakashela, ebhalisa,
futhi ebhala okuthile kumazwana. Ekugcineni, ngiphinde ngenze

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izingxoxo njalo nezinye izinhlobo zemidiya, kuye
ngokuthi kwenzekani, futhi ngeshwa, kulezi zinsuku

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kunezinto eziningi ezenzekayo, kufanele kushiwo.

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Kuthiwa unoxhumano oluhle neziphathimandla
zezokuphepha, amaphoyisa kanye nezinsizakalo ezimfihlo.

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Kwenzeke kanjani lokho?
Ngokuvamile, lezi zindilinga azifinyeleleki.

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Yebo, ingxenye ngoba nami ngivela kulelo banga, vele. Ngahambela
izifundo zokuqeqeshwa futhi ngasebenza eminyangweni ehlukene

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nasemagunyeni ahlukene, futhi abantu engangisebenza nabo ngaleso
sikhathi nabo bakhuphuka ezikhundleni futhi baphumelela

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emisebenzini yabo. Futhi kuyiqiniso ukuthi ngemva kokushicilelwa
kwezincwadi zokuqala, abaningi babo baxhumana nami.

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Ngemva kwalokho ngenza abantu abasha
engangihlangana nabo, futhi sengithole amanye

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amadokhumenti ebhokisini lezincwadi njalo njalo.

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Ngakho-ke kunjalo, indaba isisabalale phakathi kweziphathimandla
zezokuphepha, ngakho-ke ngempela nginolwazi oluhle.

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Yebo, lokho kusho ukuthi unenethiwekhi
ebanzi, ngakho-ke ungakwazi ukufinyelela kulwazi

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ongasoze wakwazi ukuluthola ngenye indlela.

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Impela, yebo, kodwa manje sekukhona ingcindezi eziphathimandla
nakubaphoyisa ngabanye ukuze bavumbule ukuphulwa kwamalungelo.

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Futhi sekuyoba nzima kakhulu ukuhlangana.

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Akwenzeki ngocingo futhi, futhi
sekungekho okwenzeka isikhathi eside.

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Ngakho-ke abantu abangaphandle abazi nhlobo ingcindezi eyakhiwe
ngaphakathi kweziphathimandla yokuthi zithule ngezinto

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ezingazange zenziwe, futhi zihambisane nokumbozwa
okwenziwa ngabaphathi bazo bezepolitiki.

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Ngakho-ke kunezinto eziningi ezingalungile kakhulu lapha.

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Yebo, ngakho ake siqale ngesihloko sokufihla izinto.

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Ngo-2016, u-Anis Amri wenza ukuhlasela emakethe
yamaKhisimusi eBerlin, eqhuba iloli eliqhuba phakathi kwesixuku.

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Ukuhlasela kokuqala okukhulu kwabanqobi
be-Islam eJalimane emlandweni wakamuva.

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Ubhalile incwadi ethi, U-Anis Amri noHulumeni Wefederal.

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Futhi lapho, ubhekisela ocwaningweni lwakho
namafayela owawuhlanganisile, ubhala ukuthi

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iziphathimandla zezokuphepha zazazi kahle u-Anis Amri.

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Ukuhlasela kwenzeka ngaphansi kwamehlo abagadi abaningi.

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Futhi uthi naphezu kokuboshwa kwakhe kaningi
ngaphambilini, umsolwa wanikezwa inkululeko

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ephelele futhi wavunyelwa ngisho ukubaleka kamuva.

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Kwabe sekufihlwa konke. Lezo zinsolo zimbi kakhulu.

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Ngoba lokho kusho ukuthi uhulumeni
kazwelonke wamukela ngenhloso ukufa kwabantu

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abayishumi nambili nokulimala kwabanye abangama-70.

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Unobufakazi buni onabo ngalezi zimangalo ezinzima?

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Yebo, ngempela, lezi zinsolo ezinzima kakhulu.

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Futhi ngithole amadokhumenti
angama-20 000 kuzo zonke iziphathimandla.

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Futhi ngakwazi ukukhuluma ngqo
nomcwaningi wezobugebengu bokwesabisa obebambe

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iqhaza ngqo kuleli cala, owangikhombisa lokhu.

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Uthe sesizama ukubopha u-Anis Amri iminyaka eyodwa
nengxenye. Asikwazi ukuthola umyalelo wokubopha.

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Saba nemihlangano emine ubuso nobuso nabaphathi abathi, "shiya le
ndoda yedwa," naphezu kwezobugebengu obukhulu, naphezu

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kokuhlaselwa ngemese emkhakheni wezidakamizwa, naphezu
kokuxhumana ngqo ne-IS eyayisebenza kakhulu ngaleso sikhathi.

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Kwakuyiseli ngqo u-Anis Amri; u-Anis Amri akayena
umenzi wedwa, kodwa wayenethiwekhi enkulu ye-IS

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eJalimane, eyayihlanganisa futhi u-Abu Wallah, isibonelo.

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Okwamanje usesilingweni futhi ufuna
ukuvimbela ukuxoshwa kwakhe ezweni.

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Futhi yilokho kwakuyisizathu sengqondo yami yokuthi izinsizakalo
eziyimfihlo, kusukela eHhovisi Lwefederal Lokuvikela

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uMthethosisekelo kuya ku-CIA, zenze konke
okusemandleni azo ukuvimba amaphoyisa ekwenzeni umsebenzi wawo.

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Ukuze babophe lo muntu oyingozi, owawazi wonke umuntu ukuthi
uzokwenza ukuhlasela kobuphekula hhayi 'uma' kodwa 'nini', ukuze

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bafinyelele kubantu abamsekela, ngoba ucingo
lwakhe lwalulalelwa futhi lwalulawulwa

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ngesathelayithi ngomyalelo owayehlela amakamu e-IS eLibya.

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Futhi yilokho ngqo abantu
baseMelika abakwenzile ngenhliziyo ebandayo.

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Futhi yilokho okwabangela ukuhlasela eBreitscheidplatz ekuqaleni.

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Futhi kungani izinsizakalo eziyimfihlo
zazinentshisekelo yokuvumela u-Anis Amri ahambe?

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Okokuqala, vele, igolide elisha
lezinsizakalo zolwazi: idatha nezqoqo ledatha.

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U-Anis Amri wayenxhumano eqondile nabahleli
bobugebengu be-IS ekampini yezempi eLibya.

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Futhi unjalo, usesimweni samaSulumane, wafika eJalimane edlula
eLampedusa nase-Italy, lapho ayesejele njengomsolwa wobugebengu.

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Abantu be-IS bamsekela futhi bamsize yonke indawo.

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Kwakuwunethiwekhi abantu ababefuna ukuyiveza.

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Futhi, vele, ukuxhumana okuqondile neLibya.

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Futhi kungakapheli sikhathi eside ngemuva kokuhlaselwa
okubulalayo kwabaphangi eMakethe kaKhisimusi eBerlin, kwaba

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ngamaMelika abashaya amabhomu ezinkampini zabaphangi zika-Anis
Amri eLibya besebenzisa iqembu lezindiza

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eliphathwe umkhumbi wokuthwala izindiza oluvela
eMediterranean, babulala abaphangi be-IS abangaphezu kuka-70.

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Futhi umkhulumeli wePentagon wathi kanjalo. Futhi lo mkhulumeli
wePentagon waphinde wathi okuthile okungakaze kuxoxwe ngempela

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eziteshini zezindaba zaseJalimane, okungukuthi
lo mkhankaso wezempi wawuhloselwe labo

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ababephethe ukuhlasela, njengesenzo sokuziphindisela.

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Futhi ngibhalile konke lokhu encwadini yami.

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Ngigcine imithombo engu-600 nengu-700,
kuhlanganisa neziteshi zezindaba zaseMelika.

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Ukuze kuvele isithombe esicacile
kakhulu futhi esingenakuphikiswa lapho.

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Futhi nawe uthi i-CIA ibambe iqhaza?

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Yebo, kunjalo. Futhi kuyacaca ngokuphelele ukuthi lolu hlelo
lwamadron kanye nohlelo – olunegama lohlelo olwahlukile,

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igama lenkinga yezempi – lokubhubhisa i-IS ezinkampini
zaseLibya. Futhi lokho kwakuyinhlelo ye-CIA ikakhulu.

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Mnu Schubert, ukuze kucace nje.

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Lokho kusho ukuthi uhulumeni wase-US wayalela
iziphathimandla zezokuphepha ukuthi zingamkhathazi

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u-Anis Amri ukuze zizuze zona. Ngiyakuqonda kahle lokhu?

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Yebo, impela nami anginayo
ubufakazi obungangabazeki obuvela e-CIA.

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Akufakiwe emibhalweni, nakuba kunemibhalo engu-20
000, kuhlanganisa nemibhalo yenkonzo eyimfihlo.

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Kodwa kuyacaca ukuthi amaMelika bamfaka ngokuphelele
i-wiretap, bamqapha ngokuphelele, ngomyalelo we-GPS.

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Kukhona futhi ukubhekwa ngesikhathi sangempela
kwengxoxo yakhe nomholi we-IS eLibya, umholi wobuphekula,

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abayenza ngesi-Arabhu. Futhi yashintshwa ngasikhathi sinye.

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Lokhu kukhombisa izinga lokuqapha elisetshenziswe
lapho nokuthi liyisibheke esibalulekile kangakanani.

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Futhi wayengabanjwa kudala. Usewenze
izenzo eziningana zokwephula umthetho.

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Waphinde wanqatshelwa ukwenza kanjalo
lapho izinto zimshisa kakhulu eJalimane.

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Wayefuna ukubaleka aye kwamanye amazwe. Wavinjwa ukuphuma ezweni.

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Anis Amri wabuzwa imibuzo wathi manje
uzoboshwa ukuze adluliselwe kwamanye amazwe.

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Wathi, ngifuna ukuphuma ngokuzithandela manje.

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Awudingi ukungigxusha ezweni. Ngifuna ukubuyela
eMpumalanga Ephakathi. Futhi uhulumeni kazwelonke uvimbe lokho.

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Uhulumeni kazwelonke waqinisekisa ukuthi omunye wabahlanganyeli
bakhe wathunyelwa eMorocco ebusuku ngemuva kohlaselo.

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Kukhona ubufakazi obuphakamisa ukuthi
wayengumhloli ophindwe kabili wezinsizakalo

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eziyimfihlo zaseMorocco futhi wayesebenza ne-IS.

08:18.415 --> 08:23.772
Akasolwa. Ngokombono wami, bekufanele abekwe phambi kwenkantolo,
kodwa esikhundleni salokho waxoshwa eMnyangweni Wezangaphakathi

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weFederal ngomkhankaso wokusebenza ngasese nangobuqili.

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Womuntu wesifazane ophethe lokhu wanikezwa nguNkk
Merkel isikhundla sommeli eMelika. Yilokho

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okukhombisa ukuthi leli cala lonke lafika phezulu kangakanani.

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Kuyacaca kimi ukuthi amaMelika, impela, namaJalimane abumpumputhe
ngokuphelele uma kukhulunywa ngobuphekula bamaSulumane.

08:40.161 --> 08:45.040
Bancike ngokuphelele kumaMelika,
abalalela konke nomuntu wonke lapha.

08:45.040 --> 08:50.056
Futhi lapho amaMelika ethi, "Awumboshi yena,"
iziphathimandla zaseJalimane zishaya uhlangothi

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lwezinyawo ndawonye bese zenza ngqo njengoba zibatshelwa.

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Yebo. Yebo, masibuyele esimweni samanje.

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Izincwadi zabo zinezinhloko ezifana nokuthi Ukuqedwa kokuzinza
kweJalimane, Ukulahleka kokuphepha kwangaphakathi

09:04.668 --> 09:11.065
nangaphandle, kanye Nempi Yombango Iza: Izimpawu
Zokuvuka Nezinguquko Ezinkulu Emadolobheni aseJalimane.

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Manje, uhulumeni omusha kazwelonke usethumele umgomo
wokubuyisela ukuhleleka lapha nokubuyisa ukulawula imingcele.

09:17.891 --> 09:23.008
Ucabanga ukuthi inhlangano emnyama
nebomvu izoletha inguquko engcono lapha?

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Ngokungeziwe, ngabhala ngokudungeka kweJalimane ngo-2016.

09:26.506 --> 09:29.220
Ngaleso sikhathi, kwakusabhekwa
njengokwesabisa nokuphuphisa izixuku.

09:29.220 --> 09:34.300
Manje sesiyibona nsuku zonke
ezindabeni, nakuba okuningi kufihlwe ezindabeni.

09:34.300 --> 09:37.733
Kodwa abantu bangazibonela ngokwabo lapho
behamba ezindaweni eziphakathi kwamadolobha abo ukuthi

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yini eyenzekile eminyakeni embalwa nje kuphela.

09:40.352 --> 09:45.455
Futhi yingakho le ncwadi, ngeshwa, ngeshwa, konke kwaba yiqiniso.

09:45.455 --> 09:52.874
Futhi lokho kwakuyisizathu sami sokuqhubeka, ukuvusa abantu.

09:52.874 --> 09:56.866
Futhi ingxenye yesibili yombuzo, ubomvu noluhlaza,
empeleni ubomvu noluhlaza, ngithi ubomvu nomnyama.

09:56.866 --> 10:01.188
Yebo, ukuphuthelwa ulimi empeleni
kuyingxenye yohlelo, ngoba kufana nobomvu noluhlaza.

10:01.188 --> 10:04.360
Red-Black empeleni iyaqhubeka lapho
inhlangano ye-traffic light eyekile khona.

10:04.360 --> 10:08.928
Lawa lawulwa emngceleni ayisiboniso nje esingenalutho oluwusizo.

10:08.928 --> 10:13.435
Akukho ukuxoshwa okuqhubekayo, ngisho
naseziboshweni, hhayi ngisho nakuma-Islamists.

10:13.435 --> 10:17.340
Futhi lokho akushintshi nhlobo. Akukho
ukuguqulwa kwenqubomgomo yokufuduka.

10:17.340 --> 10:22.024
Ngokusho kwabezindaba eziyinhloko, ukuguqulwa
kwenqubomgomo yokufuduka kukhona kuphela ukuze

10:22.024 --> 10:24.807
kugcinwe abantu bethule ukuze bangavoti enye iqembu.

10:24.807 --> 10:31.183
Futhi ngeshwa, akukho okuzoshintsha kube
ngcono ngaphansi kokhetho lukahulumeni lo.

10:31.183 --> 10:36.277
Futhi lokho kusho ukuthi abezepolitiki abafuni ngempela
ukulungisa isimo. Ingabe kukhona abazenzeli inzuzo ngasese?

10:36.277 --> 10:41.432
Ilobhi engabonakali, esebenza ngaphandle kwesibanzi samaqembu?

10:41.432 --> 10:46.955
Kune abaningi abazuza kulokhu. Ukufuduka
okuningi sekuyimodeli enkulu yebhizinisi.

10:46.955 --> 10:55.663
Bheka nje lezi zinkokhelo zokuqasha ezesabekayo, eziqoqwa
izinhlangano zenhlalakahle ezifana ne-Red Cross, i-Caritas,

10:55.663 --> 10:59.457
i-AWO kanye ne-SPD eduze ne-Workers' Welfare Association.

10:59.457 --> 11:05.999
Osomabhizinisi bezakhiwo, amabhange amakhulu aseMelika, iWestern
Union, abazuza amabhiliyoni ngenxa yemali ethunyelwa eJalimane

11:05.999 --> 11:11.718
naseNtshonalanga Yurophu, ingxenye evela emalini yezokuphepha
komphakathi, ingxenye evela kobugebengu, emazweni

11:11.718 --> 11:17.290
abo, lapho inzuzo yandiswa khona ngemali
yokuphatha ephezulu nezinga lokushintshanisa eliphansi.

11:17.290 --> 11:22.573
Futhi, vele, yonke lezi zingqalasizinda zezinhlangano
ezingekho ngaphansi kukahulumeni, ezisekelwa ngqo nguhulumeni,

11:22.573 --> 11:25.764
okungukuthi izinhlangano ezingekho ngaphansi kukahulumeni.

11:25.764 --> 11:31.245
Ngakho-ke lelo yimodeli yebhizinisi enkulu kakhulu.
Futhi yilokho futhi esinye sezizathu zokuthi abantu

11:31.245 --> 11:35.840
abaningi kakhulu banentshisekelo ekutheni kungashintshi lutho.

11:35.840 --> 11:42.182
Yebo. Lokho kusho ukuthi abezepolitiki
abanakho ngempela ukuthakasela ukuguqula izinto.

11:42.182 --> 11:45.251
Kuthiwa kunomcimbi wombukiso.

11:45.251 --> 11:51.888
Kunezidlali eziningi ezizuzayo ngasemva
kwezithunzi, njengamabhange kanye nazo zonke

11:51.888 --> 11:57.482
lezo zinhlangano ezinkulu ozibalulile, ama-NGO.

11:57.482 --> 12:01.663
Ngakolunye uhlangothi, ungabona ukuthi
abokufika ngokwabo bangabantu abahlaselwayo noma

12:01.663 --> 12:03.503
abasetshenziswayo yilabo abazuza ngasemva.

12:03.503 --> 12:09.202
Amakhaya abo, njengeSyria, i-Afghanistan,
i-Iraq neLibya, abebhoshwe egameni lendemokhrasi.

12:09.202 --> 12:13.554
Bese beza lapha ngamanga, mhlawumbe befuna ukuhlangana.

12:13.554 --> 12:16.600
Abanye bayadideka ngokwemvelo ngenxa yezimpi.

12:16.600 --> 12:20.694
Lokhu kuyatshala inzondo futhi kudala
umhlabathi onomvundla wokuthi abantu babe yizimbangi.

12:20.694 --> 12:24.101
Kanti-ke ngakolunye uhlangothi, kunezindawo
ezingavunyelwe ukuya kuzo eJalimane eziya zanda

12:24.101 --> 12:26.518
lapho ngisho amaphoyisa engazami ukuya khona.

12:26.518 --> 12:30.392
Bese bethi, yebo, sizovimbela imimese noma
sandise ukuqapha izakhamuzi

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njengesisombululo. Kodwa lokho akuxazululi inkinga nhlobo.

12:34.708 --> 12:39.852
Ingabe unombono wokuthi kunohlelo oluqhutshwayo lapha?

12:39.852 --> 12:43.391
Kukhona lo mqondo we-Freemasonry yezinga
eliphezulu: ukuhleleka okuvela ekudidekeni.

12:43.391 --> 12:49.763
Lokhu kusho ukuthi umphakathi ugcinwa esimweni sokucindezeleka
kuze kube yilapho befuna ubuholi obuqinile

12:49.763 --> 12:54.883
futhi bemukela izixazululo
ezazingenakucatshangelwa ngaphambilini. Ingabe kunjalo?

12:54.883 --> 12:57.406
Yebo, inkinga ukuthi empeleni sinodweshu.

12:57.406 --> 13:02.586
Sinemibango eminingi yokudonsa ukunaka ukuze kugwenywe
izindaba ezibalulekile, njengale ndawo evinjelwe imimese.

13:02.586 --> 13:08.953
Akuyona inkinga yamabanga, kodwa inkinga yalabo abahlasela
ngamabanga. Yingakho lokhu kuyimpikiswano yokudonsa ukunaka.

13:08.953 --> 13:11.951
Muva nje, othile walimaza omunye ngesaha yamandla.

13:11.951 --> 13:15.756
Khona-ke maduzane kuzofanele futhi
sifake izindawo ezingenazo izihogela.

13:15.756 --> 13:22.960
Futhi ngempela, kuyiqiniso futhi ukuthi lezi zimo, ezidalwe
ngabaphathi bezepolitiki ngokwabo, manje sezisetshenziswa

13:22.960 --> 13:26.183
ukudlulisela imithetho yokuphepha eqinile kakhulu.

13:26.183 --> 13:30.483
Ukugcina idatha, ukuqapha ngocingo
lweselula, ukuvinjelwa okwengeziwe ezinkundleni

13:30.483 --> 13:33.470
zokuxhumana, ukulawula okwengeziwe imibono.

13:33.470 --> 13:41.908
Futhi lezi zinyathelo azihloselwe izigebengu noma abantu
abayingozi, kodwa zihloselwe izakhamuzi kanye neziteshi

13:41.908 --> 13:46.333
zezindaba, njengeCompaq, isibonelo, eziphikise lezi zimo.

13:46.333 --> 13:53.785
Futhi lokhu kukhombisa ukuthi lokhu akwenzeki ngokungahleliwe,
kodwa kuwumhlelo, kuwuhlelo lwezinjongo oluqhubekayo.

13:53.785 --> 13:57.364
Futhi ngokulimaza izwe lakhe uqobo,
ngokulimaza abantu abahlala ezweni lakhe.

13:57.364 --> 14:01.798
Futhi yilokho okubhubhisayo ngesimo
esasingiseso kusukela ngo-2015, esiba sibi

14:01.798 --> 14:05.100
kakhulu futhi sifinyelela phezulu minyaka yonke.

14:05.100 --> 14:12.027
Yebo, uma uthi lokhu kwenziwa ngenhloso,
umphumela wokugcina uzoba iJalimane elingazinzile.

14:12.027 --> 14:17.082
Ingabe ezombusazwe ziyazuza ngalokhu?
Ngisho, sekuba nzima kakhulu ukuyilawula.

14:17.082 --> 14:22.560
Manje uzwa ukuthi bakha izithiyo ezinkulu
ezizungeze iBundestag nokunye, bezivikela kakhulu kakhulu.

14:22.560 --> 14:26.775
Ngesinye isikhathi, kuzoba yingozi kulaba bafana namantombazane.

14:26.775 --> 14:33.486
Yebo, bavikelwe kahle. Bane-limousini esemthethweni
enezingqimba zensimbi kanye nokuvikelwa kwe-BKA okunamasosha.

14:33.486 --> 14:38.305
Abasesaphili impilo evamile, abasesayi ukuthenga bodwa.

14:38.305 --> 14:42.656
Lokho kusho ukuthi abakuboni nhlobo. Kuyibhulbhu evaliwe.

14:42.656 --> 14:47.562
Manje isithiyo se-AHA sakhiwa phezu
kweReichstag. Yilokho okubizwa ngokuthi.

14:47.562 --> 14:53.245
Ngakho-ke, uhlobo oluthile lwesithiyo setanki
oluvimbela ukuthi ungashayeli lapho ngemoto.

14:53.245 --> 15:00.378
Eqinisweni, sebeqhubeka nokuzivalela ngaphakathi, futhi
manje isifunda sikahulumeni siyandiswa nakakhulu, nakuba

15:00.378 --> 15:04.415
kungekho amabhiliyoni atholakalayo, amabhiliyoni esikweletini.

15:04.415 --> 15:09.565
Manje i-chancellery iyandiswa futhi ngentengo ecishe ibe
yibhiliyoni elilodwa lama-euro, nakuba isivele ingomunye

15:09.565 --> 15:12.507
wezinhloko-dolobha zikahulumeni ezinkulu kakhulu emhlabeni.

15:12.507 --> 15:19.232
Ngakho-ke empeleni kuyinqubomgomo ephikisana
nezwe lakhe siqu kanye nabantu bakhe siqu.

15:19.232 --> 15:23.602
Incwadi yakho yakamuva inesihloko
esifanayo, Impi Eyimfihlo Ngokumelene NeJalimane.

15:23.602 --> 15:30.640
Futhi isihlokwana sithi? Izwe
elihloselwe ukuhlaselwa ngabaphathi bomhlaba.

15:30.640 --> 15:33.338
Ubani olwa impi lapha? Futhi yiziphi izikhulu ezikhulunywa ngazo?

15:33.338 --> 15:36.800
Futhi le mpi ilwiwa kanjani?

15:36.800 --> 15:39.760
Yebo, lokhu akuyona impi nje
njengoba sasikucabanga ngaphambilini.

15:39.760 --> 15:43.516
Iqembu A liyalwa neQembu B, kodwa
sinempi enamahlangothi amaningi.

15:43.516 --> 15:48.475
Sisesimweni sempi yezomnotho neJalimane, uma ubheka amaMelika.

15:48.475 --> 15:55.189
Kukhona futhi uJoe Biden, engivumelana ngokuphelele
nengqopha-mlando yezophenyo uSimon Herschel eMelika, othi

15:55.189 --> 16:02.545
uhulumeni kaJoe Biden wadiliza iNord Stream 2 ngoba babefuna
ukusihlukanisa neRussia negesi yayo yaseRussia eshibhile.

16:02.545 --> 16:05.856
Manje sithenga igesi ye-LNG
emdaka, ebizayo kakhulu evela eMelika.

16:05.856 --> 16:11.910
Lena futhi impi ephikisana neJalimane, ephikisana
nokuhlinzekwa kwayo kwamandla, ephikisana nomnotho wayo.

16:11.910 --> 16:18.056
Sine umkhakha wezezimali onjenge-BlackRock, owaphinde
wasabalalisa le mfundiso yezimo zezulu ngaphambi kokuthi

16:18.056 --> 16:21.618
manje izihlukanise nayo. Kwabe sekuyimodeli yebhizinisi.

16:21.618 --> 16:28.090
Lezi zinkampani ezinkulu zama-hedge fund, ingxenye yazo,
sezixhase izinhlangano ezingekho ngaphansi kukahulumeni

16:28.090 --> 16:35.488
eziphathelene nezimo zezulu ukuze zikwazi ukucindezela abaphathi
bezepolitiki ukuthi baguqule izimboni zabo zisebenzise imishini

16:35.488 --> 16:39.051
emisha, lapho imboni yezimali isivele itshale khona imali.

16:39.051 --> 16:46.205
Ngakho-ke lokhu kungumshini omkhulu kakhulu wokwabela kabusha,
njengase-COVID-19, lapho kwakukhona imali eningi

16:46.205 --> 16:52.065
kakhulu, lapho imali yathathwa kubantu
abasemazingeni aphansi yabe isabelwa embonini yezemithi.

16:52.065 --> 16:56.931
Futhi empeleni siyabona lokhu kuzo zonke
izindawo, yingakho isihloko sencwadi savela.

16:56.931 --> 17:02.081
Yebo, kubizwa nangokuthi impi ehlanganisiwe,
okusho impi engalwi ngemikhali ejwayelekile.

17:02.081 --> 17:07.347
Yiziphi izinhloso ocabanga ukuthi zisekhona ngemuva
kwalokhu, ngaphandle kokuthi abadlali ngabanye bazicebise?

17:07.347 --> 17:14.974
Yebo, leso isizathu esinamandla kakhulu. Izinzuzo, amabhiliyoni
ezinzuzo, amandla nomthelela, impela, kanye nokungabi

17:14.974 --> 17:18.740
nacala, ukuze umuntu ahlale evikelekile ekumangalelweni.

17:18.740 --> 17:21.204
Lokhu futhi kubonakala kakhulu eJalimane.

17:21.204 --> 17:26.428
Kwamanye amazwe aseYurophu naseMelika, kukhona futhi
abezepolitiki abasebenza izigwebo ejele, ezinye zazo zihlala

17:26.428 --> 17:29.180
iminyaka eminingi, ngenxa yokuntengantenga nokukhwabanisa.

17:29.180 --> 17:36.083
EJalimane, akekho umpolitiki osezingeni
eliphezulu oboshwe elindele ukwahlulelwa.

17:36.083 --> 17:43.507
Ngisho eHabeck, lapho ihhovisi lommeli womphakathi belingakaze
libe nesibindi sokuthatha isinyathelo, futhi sinalo ihhovisi

17:43.507 --> 17:48.882
lommeli womphakathi elibophezela imiyalelo yezombusazwe, kodwa
lalinobuqhawe bokumhlola ngokwephula

17:48.882 --> 17:54.508
umthetho wokuhlambalaza inkosi, lowo
ayewusebenzisile yena uqobo emakhulu ezikhathi kubantu.

17:54.508 --> 18:03.697
Kwathi-ke amaqembu amadala e-Bundestag awaphikisa lokhu, okuyinto
engenangqondo, evikela abezepolitiki bawo ekubekweni icala

18:03.697 --> 18:13.941
okuncane kakhulu, kanti ngasikhathi sinye avusa izandla
ngokushesha kubaphikisi bezepolitiki bese eqala ukusesha izindlu.

18:13.941 --> 18:25.343
Yebo, kodwa-ke uthi ekugcineni kuwumdlalo
wezepolitiki owenziwa phambi kwethu, okuyingxenye yokudida.

18:25.343 --> 18:31.646
Ngicabanga nje ukuthi kubalulekile ukungalahlekelwa ukugxila
kulokho, yingakho ngabuza ngama-elite abekhona ngemuva,

18:31.646 --> 18:39.060
ngoba noma yiliphi udaba olubheka kulo, kuhlala
kubonakala sengathi yibo abantu abafanayo abaphethe izintambo.

18:39.060 --> 18:42.855
Yebo, uhlala ugcina usebenzisa izintambo ezifanayo.

18:42.855 --> 18:49.516
Ngakho-ke kunokuhlangene kwezombusazwe nezempi, njengase-Ukraine,
futhi manje nangokuhlasela kweMelika e-Iran,

18:49.516 --> 18:56.071
abakwenzile nakuba uDonald Trump ethembise
okuthile okuhlukile ngokuphelele ngaphambi kokhetho.

18:56.071 --> 19:01.540
Ungabona lokho, impela, ungakubona manje
ekuzibekeleni izikhali okukhulu kwe-NATO, i-EU kanye neJalimane.

19:01.540 --> 19:08.995
Ungakubona lokhu emkhakheni wezokwelapha nge-coronavirus, lapho
sethemba ukuthi uBobby Kennedy uzogonyelwa nakakhulu eMelika.

19:08.995 --> 19:13.759
Angicabangi ukuthi isiqalile ngempela okwamanje.
Abantu abaningi babe nethemba lokuthola okwengeziwe.

19:13.759 --> 19:22.112
Yebo, kuwumlando ongapheli phakathi
kokuhle nobubi, uma ufuna ukukubiza kanjalo.

19:22.112 --> 19:26.592
Uthe uTrump wathembisa okuthile
okuhlukile kunalokho akwenza ngempela.

19:26.592 --> 19:30.021
Ungakubona ngokucacile kakhulu kuFriedrich Merz.

19:30.021 --> 19:38.460
Ngisho nezithembiso zokhetho ezibaluleke kakhulu
zonke seziphukile kungakapheli izinyanga eziyisithupha.

19:38.460 --> 19:43.466
Ucabanga ukuthi abantu bazokwazi ukubekezelela lokhu isikhathi
esingakanani futhi bazovumela ukuthi baholwe ngempumulo,

19:43.466 --> 19:47.480
kokubili ngakolunye uhlangothi nangakolunye uhlangothi lolwandle?

19:47.480 --> 19:51.340
Ngakho-ke, kimi, uFriedrich Merz ungumkhohlisi wokhetho
omkhulu kunabo bonke kusukela ekupheleni kweMpi Yezwe Yesibili.

19:51.340 --> 19:58.833
Futhi ngikholelwa ukuthi manje sesisuku lwama-54 noma
lwama-55 lokuqhaqhazela kwezikweletu, lapho akhohlisa khona.

19:58.833 --> 20:07.045
Manje sekubonakale ukuthi ngisho nangaphambi kokhetho waye-oda
umbiko, ngokwami cishe ngama-€9,500, ku-Udo Di Fabio, owayehlose

20:07.045 --> 20:13.769
ukubeka isisekelo salomthetho wokuvimbela izikweletu
kulo Bundestag yakudala, lapho amaGreen ayenamavoti

20:13.769 --> 20:17.735
amaningi kunama-AfD, ukuze kuqhutshwe konke sekulungisiwe.

20:17.735 --> 20:23.940
Kwathi-ke abantu baseJalimane batshelwa ukuthi kwenzeke
isigameko esihlazisayo esihilela uZelensky eWhite House.

20:23.940 --> 20:28.494
Konke lokhu kwakusivele kunqunywe ngaphambi
kokhetho, ngakho-ke kwakuyinkohliso enkulu ekukhethweni.

20:28.494 --> 20:33.820
Futhi uma sasibe nendawo yemidiya esebenzayo
eJalimane, bekumele kube nokwethulwa kwezindaba

20:33.820 --> 20:37.088
zansuku zonke kuze kube uFriedrich Merz ehoxa.

20:37.088 --> 20:43.428
Futhi lokhu kukhombisa ukuthi nakuba sinenkinga yezombusazwe
yemvelo, inkinga enkulu kunazo zonke, impela,

20:43.428 --> 20:49.444
yinkinga yemidiya, amandla emidiya e-ARD, e-ZDF,
emithonjeni emikhulu, e-Spiegel, e-Axel Springer Verlag.

20:49.444 --> 20:52.749
Bathatha isinqumo sokuthi ngeke
sishintshe lesi sikhwekhwe sibe yisikhwekhwe.

20:52.749 --> 20:59.538
Esikhundleni salokho, bakha enye isihloko esiphikisana ne-AfD,
noma imithombo yezindaba ehlukile ithola ngenye

20:59.538 --> 21:05.550
indlela isihloko abangasenza isigungu futhi
badonse ukunaka ngaso. Futhi yilokho inkinga enkulu.

21:05.550 --> 21:12.898
Futhi ngikholelwa ukuthi yilokho okwenza abantu bengakakayibuyeli
emigwaqweni, ngoba amandla wezindaba asenamandla kakhulu.

21:12.898 --> 21:15.914
Yebo, usho kahle, lezi zingxabano zilandelana ngokulandelana.

21:15.914 --> 21:18.914
Iyisu elisetshenziswa kaningi kaningi.

21:18.914 --> 21:24.439
Lena yindlela evamile yokwahlukanisa nokubusa, lapho
amaqembu afana nabantu abagonyiwe abaphikisana nabantu

21:24.439 --> 21:28.099
abangagonyiwe, kanye nabantu bendawo abaphikisana nabokufika.

21:28.099 --> 21:29.941
Kodwa asidingi kuwela kulesi sibambiso.

21:29.941 --> 21:34.797
Mnu Schubert, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokwabelana nathi
ngalezi zenzakalo ezididayo namuhla, ngokusibonisa

21:34.797 --> 21:39.328
izintambo nokukhanyisa abalawuli bamapapethi abasemva kwezibuko.

21:39.328 --> 21:44.087
Masakaziseni, babukeli abathandekayo, lolu lwazi ngalezi
zixhumanisi ezibalulekile ukuze sikwazi ukubhekana nenkinga

21:44.087 --> 21:47.861
kusukela emthonjeni wayo futhi umphakathi
onolwazi ukwazi ukubopha labo abasemandleni ukuthi

21:47.861 --> 21:51.020
baphendule. Mnu Schubert, ngiyabonga kakhulu.

21:51.020 --> 21:52.726
Ngizojabula ukwenza lokho, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokungimema.