WEBVTT

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A yau, ina maraba da Karl Hummitzsch zuwa ɗakin studio ɗin Kla.tv
ɗinmu. Kai ne shugaban sashen Jamus na United

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for Freedom, ƙungiyar kare hakkin ɗan adam, kuma
mataimakin shugaban Kwamitin Ƙa'idojin Ƙamanci.

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Mista Hummitzsch, a yau makonni biyu suka cika tun lokacin
da ka yi wata tattaunawa mai ban sha'awa kuma mai ilimantarwa

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sosai da Dr Reiner Füllmich a gidan yari na Bremervörde.

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Muna so mu yi magana kaɗan game da hakan a yau. Wannan
tattaunawa ce mai zafi sosai, idan na fahimce ta daidai.

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Amma bana son in manta da ambaton cewa ya yi
matukar farin ciki ganin wani mai fafutukar

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kare hakkin bil Adama yana ziyartarsa a kurkuku.

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Mun rungume juna cikin murna matuƙa.
Tattaunawar ta kasance mai daɗi ƙwarai, cike da

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ilimi, kuma dukkanmu mun yi matuƙar farin ciki.

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Tabbas ina yarda da hakan. Mun riga mun
tattauna batun hakkin ɗan adam, musamman dangane da

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Dr Reiner Füllmich, a wata hira da ta gabata.

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A taƙaice, kuma, game da Dr Reiner Füllmich.
Shi lauya ne, mai lasisi a Jamus da Amurka.

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Ya fito fili musamman a lokacin annobar
coronavirus wajen gano laifukan da suka shafi coronavirus a

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wannan kwamitin coronavirus, inda ya kasance memba.

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Amma ya kuma tara babban alkalan bincike a Amurka.
Ya tattara masana kimiyya 150, likitoci da lauyoyi.

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Sun shirya wata takardar tuhuma wadda ta
bayyana a cikakkiya wadannan laifukan coronavirus.

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Sai kuma, abin mamaki, aka tuhume shi. Ta wata
hanya, an zargi shi da satar kudi ko yin amfani da kudi

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ba bisa ka'ida ba. Ba ma son mu shiga wannan yanzu.

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A kowane hali, an tsare shi a Mexico. Ta yaya
hakan ya faru? Kuna da wasu bayanai game da hakan? Za

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ku iya bayyana hakan kaɗan ƙari, Mista Hummitzsch?

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Eh, mun yi tattaunawa mai kyau sosai.
Haka kuma mun sami isasshen lokaci.

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Ya bayyana yadda aka kora shi daga
Mexico, idan za a iya kiran hakan haka.

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Ba mu samu cikakken bitar fayil ɗin ba
tukuna. Zan iya magana ne kawai bisa abin da ya

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faɗa da fayilolin da muke da su zuwa yanzu.

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A cewar wannan, an ja shi zuwa ofishin konsulat
a Mexico da ƙarya bayan fasfo-fafsonsa sun ɓace.

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Ba zan iya faɗin da tabbaci cewa haka daidai yadda abin
ya faru ba, amma haka ya ruwaito shi, kuma haka muke

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saninsa daga cikin fayiloli. Ina ɗauka cewa wannan daidai ne.

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Ya gaya mini hakan cikin hanya mai matuƙar sahihanci.

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Sai aka gaya masa cewa fasfo ɗin za su kasance a
wurin da aka ce ya je ya ɗauke su. Kuma sai kuma

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akwai wasu fasfo na maye gurbin da aka ce zai karɓa.

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Sai aka sake samun tsofaffin fasfo.
Amma sai aka ce ba su da inganci.

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Don haka, labari ne mai matuƙar ban mamaki,
wanda zan ce ba a gudanar da shi yadda ya

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kamata ba. A ra'ayina, an yi shi cikin ɓoye sosai.

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Don haka suka kai shi filin jirgin sama. Sai ya
tsinci kansa cikin wani abu da bai fahimta nan da nan ba.

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Saboda sun kai shi sansanin 'yan gudun hijira, wani
babban daki cike da 'yan gudun hijira. Wannan ya ba da

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tunanin cewa za su kawai korar shi kamar ɗan gudun hijira.

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Amma ba haka yake ba, domin ba ya dace. Bai yi kuskure ba.
A kowane lokaci. Bugu da ƙari, ya shiga ƙasar bisa doka.

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Don haka babu wani dalili kwata-kwata na korar shi a Mexico.

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Har zuwa yanzu, komai yana da matukar shakka. Kuma ba
a ba ka damar samun fayilolin ba, duk da cewa ka nema?

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Sai ya isa Jamus. An sauke shi daga matakala
a bayan gida, ta wuce gaban masu sauraro.

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Kuma a ƙasa, 'yan sanda suka kama shi nan take.

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Ya nemi damar samun fayilolin domin gano dalilin
da ya sa aka kama shi. Ba a amince da hakan ba.

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Kuma har yanzu a yau ba mu samu
cikakken damar shiga fayilolin ba.

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Don haka ba bisa ka'ida ba ne a kama mutum ba tare da sanar da
shi ba. Kuma idan haka ne, kamar yadda na ce,

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ba mu samu damar zuwa ga fayilolin ba
tukuna. To hakan zai sabawa ka'idojin ƙasa da ƙasa.

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Waɗanne, misali?

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Alal misali, Sashe na 15 na GDPR,
Wato Dokar Kariya ta Bayanan Sirri.

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Sannan Sashe na 6 na ECHR, wato Yarjejeniyar
Turai kan Haƙƙin Dan Adam. Da umarnin EU na 2012/13.

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Don haka akwai ƙa'idodi da ke buƙatar ka ba mutum
cikakken bayani game da dalilin da ya sa ake kama shi.

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Kuma daidai shi ne abin da bai faru ba. Wannan ba bisa
ka'ida ba ne, a matsayin misali ɗaya. Ya kuma bukace

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shi, kamar yadda ya gaya mini. Amma ba a amince masa ba.

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Ba a amince da shi kwata-kwata, kai.

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Sannan aka fara tura shi gidan
yari na Rosdorf dake kusa da Kassel.

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An ajiye shi a zaman kadaici na wani lokaci. Wannan ma
keta haƙƙin ɗan adam ne. Ana ma ɗaukar shi azabtarwa

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fari bisa ga Kundin Charta na Majalisar Dinkin Duniya.

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…eh, ka'idojin Majalisar Dinkin Duniya. Sun tanadi cewa za
a iya tsare ka a zaman kadaici na tsawon kwanaki 14 kacal.

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Idan ya wuce haka, zai rage tsawon rai. Don
haka an tsare shi shi kaɗai na tsawon

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watanni shida. Eh, kuma shi ya sa muka tsoma baki.

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Kun shiga tsakani, ku daga United for Freedom. Me daidai kuka yi?

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Da farko mun lura da tsarin a taƙaice. Mun riga mun
yi masa magani tun kafin, gwargwadon yadda zai yiwu.

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Sa'an nan muka yi magana da babban lauyan
kare. Mun yi ƙoƙarin fahimtar abin da aka yi

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masa a zahiri. Yadda aka yi masa mu'amala.

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Sa'an nan muka ce za mu ɗauki shari'ar. Har zuwa lokacin,
an yi magana ne kawai game da batutuwan doka da sakin layukan

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da suka shafi bangarori biyu, wato kotu da lauyoyin kare.

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Amma muna tunkarar batutuwan hakkin ɗan adam ta wata
hanya gaba ɗaya daban. Wannan ne abin da muka yi.

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Mun mika takardar shafi talatin ga lauyoyin Fuellmich.

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Lauyoyi sun gabatar da tayinmu. A ƙarshe, hakan ya kai ga nasara.

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An mayar da shi gidan yari na daban daga baya.
Wannan a Bremervörde ne, inda nake a lokacin.

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Don gaskiya, dole ne in ce cewa tsoma bakinmu ya biya riba sosai.

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Shi kansa ba shi da wata korafi game da yadda
ake masa kulawa. Mun ga yanayin gidan yari ya

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kasance na al'ada, kamar yadda ake tsammani.

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Ba kyau sosai ba, amma ba irin yanayin da
ya kasance a baya ba. Ba su ƙara wanzuwa ba.

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Eh, abin al'ajabi. Kuma mun ma ji Dr Füllmich yana magana a wani
zanga-zanga watanni kaɗan da suka wuce, idan na tuna daidai.

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An kunna saƙon murya daga gare shi. Ya yi wa masu zanga-zanga
jawabi cikin salo mai matuƙar ƙarfafawa kuma mai hangen nesa.

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Wannan ya ba ni bege sosai. Domin shi, a
ƙarshe, mai binciken laifukan coronavirus ne.

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Don haka mun sake ganin sa a aikace, ba kawai a
kan kujerar hukuncin ba, har ma a kan filin wasa.

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Shin akwai ƙari da zai biyo baya? Za mu iya
fatan yanzu za a ba shi izinin ci gaba da

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kasancewa cikin aiki? Ko yaya kake kallon hakan?

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Idan ya kasance bisa doka, eh. To,
zai iya ci gaba da yawo cikin 'yanci.

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Ba fursuna mai hukunci ba ne. Har yanzu ba a
yanke masa hukunci ba. A zahiri, mutum ne mai 'yanci.

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Hakika.

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Ko da an takaita hakkokinsa na asali a kurkuku bisa
ga hanyoyin da aka saba a can. Ko da yake hakan na iya

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zama al'ada, ba za a hana shi hakkokinsa na asali ba.

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Wato, ya kamata ya iya yin kiran waya. Haka kuma, ya
kamata a ba shi damar yin mu'amala da duniya ta waje

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duk lokacin da ya so. Ya kamata ya iya mallakar kudinsa.

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A takaice, ya kamata ya iya yawo a wurin cikin 'yanci
kamar mutum na al'ada. Amma ba a yarda ya yi hakan ba.

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Wannan shi ne kawai lokacin da ya samu damar yin
mu'amala da duniya ta waje. Yanzu an hana shi yin hakan.

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Za mu mai da hankali kan waɗannan abubuwa. Za
mu magance su. Domin ba za a iya barin abubuwa

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yadda suke ba. A doka, ba a yarda da wannan ba.

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Don haka, idan na fahimta daidai, ba a
taɓa yanke wa Dr Füllmich hukuncin laifi ba.

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Ba a tabbatar da laifinsa ba. Don haka, bisa zato na rashin
laifi, zai kasance mutum mai 'yanci. To me yake yi a gidan yari?

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Zan ce bai kamata a ba shi damar yin magana cikin
'yanci ba. Shi ya sa ake tsare shi bisa hujjar cewa yana da

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haɗarin tserewa. Wannan ne abin da ake zarginsa da shi.

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Ah, to shi ya sa aka tsare shi a hukumance,
saboda hadarin ya tsere. Wannan ne dalilin.

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Eh, sai muka duba shi. To, ba a samu komai ba.
Babu wata hujja da ke nuna yana son tserewa.

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Don haka babu wata shaida da muka samu har yanzu.

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Duk da haka, kamar yadda muka fada, har yanzu ba mu
samu cikakken damar shiga fayilolin ba. Saboda

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haka, ya kamata a ɗauki wannan bayanin da taka tsantsan.

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Duk da haka, ba mu ga wata barazanar guduwa
daga cikin fayilolin ba. Ba shi da hujja.

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Don haka, za a iya sakin sa. Ana iya amfani da tag ɗin ƙafa ko
wasu matakan tsaro na al'ada idan kotu ta

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yanke shawarar hakan. Waɗannan tabbas suna da
tasiri. Don haka ba za a sami wata ƙyama ba.

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Za mu yi la'akari da wannan mu kuma samar da sakin
layuka masu dacewa. Manufar ita ce kawar da yiwuwar tserewa.

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Don haka, da waɗannan abubuwan da ake kira tag
ɗin ƙafa na lantarki, a zahiri zai iya

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kasancewa 'yanci kuma ya yi Kirsimeti tare da iyalinsa?

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Wannan ne abin da na yi tunani lokacin da na ziyarce shi.

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Domin komai yana nuna cewa abin da
ake yi masa a nan ba daidai ba ne.

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Amma kamar yadda na ce, amma da wasu
sharuɗɗa. Don haka ba mu da duk bayanan.

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Akwai yiwuwar akwai dalilai da yasa suke ci gaba da
riƙe shi a kurkuku. Amma bisa ga abin da muka gani zuwa

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yanzu, ya kamata ya iya yin Kirsimeti tare da matarsa.

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Ba zai kasance da wani dalili na ci gaba da
riƙe shi ba. Amma kamar yadda na ce, dole

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ne mu sake wata zagaye tare da lauya yanzu.

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Za mu yi aiki tare da ita don neman cikakken damar samun
fayilolin. Ina sa ran za mu yi nasara a wannan yunƙuri.

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Mu ƙungiya ce ta kare hakkin ɗan adam. Wannan yana nufin cewa mu
tsaka-tsaki ne, ƙasa da ƙasa ne kuma muna

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da haƙƙoƙin da suka dace. Waɗannan haƙƙoƙin
ba a riga an sanya su cikin dokar Jamus ba.

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Tabbas suna nan a Jamus ma. Amma lamari ne daban idan
Jamus ta amince da wasu dokoki – dokokin kasa da kasa.

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Mun haɗa abubuwa da yawa kuma Jamus ta tilasta mana mu karɓi
waɗannan abubuwa ma. Kuma za mu yi amfani da wannan wajibci.

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Ah eh, to waɗannan su ne ƙa'idodin ƙasa da ƙasa kamar
Yarjejeniyar Majalisar Dinkin Duniya, kamar yadda ake faɗa, kuma

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akwai wasu abubuwa makamancin haka da su ma ke da tilas ga Jamus.

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Wannan labari ne mai kyau. Wannan yana nufin cewa da
zarar ka samu damar waɗannan fayilolin, yanayin zai

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iya juya wa Reiner Füllmich a cikin ɗan gajeren lokaci.

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Daga hangen hakkin ɗan adam, muna
ɗauka cewa hakan zai yiwu a doka.

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Tambayar ita ce, ta yaya kotun Jamus za ta
mayar da martani? Ta yaya alkalai da masu

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gabatar da kara za su yi? Shin za su bi wannan doka?

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Tuni wasu mutane sun tambayi kansu ko masu gabatar
da kara da alkalai har yanzu suna bin dokokin Jamus.

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Wani lokaci mutum na iya samun ra'ayi cewa ana yin wannan da
matukar alheri, mu ce. Don haka mun riga mun yi ra'ayi a kai.

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Amma zai yiwu. Kamar yadda muka tabbatar, kotu
ta yi masa adalci dangane da yanayin gidan yari.

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Hukuma ta gidan yari ta ɗauki
matakin da ya dace. Kuma ya yi aiki.

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Zan iya tsammani cewa tattaunawa za su ci gaba a kan
wannan tushe. Don haka ana iya sakin sa, tare da ɗaura

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masa tag a ƙafarsa da sauran matakan da za a ɗora masa.

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Amma dole ne a tsare shi a gidan yari ba tare da hukunci ba.
Ba za a iya tunanin hakan ba. Haka kuma yadda aka yi masa.

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Don haka azabar da aka yi a baya. Ya isa! Haka kuma wariyar
da ya yi, yadda aka yaudari jama'a. Wannan ba ɗan'adam bane.

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Shi ya sa muke jin dole mu shiga tsakani
a matsayin ƙungiyar kare hakkin ɗan adam.

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To. A lokacin, an bayyana wannan a fili a matsayin
"lawfare". Wannan yana nufin wani irin shari'a

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da ake yi amfani da ita ba bisa ka'ida ba a siyasa.

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Mai matuƙar amfani wajen kawar da masu adawa,
kamar Dr. Reiner Füllmich mai haske, daga yawo.

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Komai ya kasance abin kunya sosai. Amma yanzu kana da kyakkyawan
hangen nesa ko kyakkyawar fata cewa hakan zai iya canzawa.

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Eh, ba wai haka kawai ba. Ban yi tunanin cewa
cire shi daga zagayowar shine manufar al'amarin ba.

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Ra'ayina daga tattaunawar shi ne suna son
su yi masa misali, kamar yadda ake cewa.

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Ta wace hanya?

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An san shi sosai a Jamus. Ya yi aiki mai yawa a fannin
ilimi tare da manyan mutane masu gaskiya da sada zuciya.

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Ya gudanar da bincike gwargwadon iliminsa tare
da masana kimiyya da dama da ƙwararru da dama.

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Ya gabatar da duk wannan tare da tawagarsa. Ya
yi haka ma a matakin duniya. Shi ya sa a can ma

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yake da suna mai ƙarfi sosai kuma mai kyau sosai.

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Don haka zan iya tunanin cewa
manufar na iya kasancewa yin masa misali.

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Kowa da kowa da ya san shi ya kamata ya sani:
idan ka fara yin tawaye yanzu kuma a zahiri kana yin

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aiki mai kyau, to haka za ta iya faruwa a kanka.

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Wannan shi ne ra'ayina idan na kalli duka
hoton. Shari'ar Füllmich, misali ga Jamus da duniya.

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To shikenan. Amma a gefe guda kuma, akwai
mutane da ƙungiyoyin kare hakkin bil'adama kamar

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United for Freedom waɗanda ke lura da wannan sosai.

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Suna tabbatar da cewa irin waɗannan cin zarafin shari'a
an dakatar da su. Kuma a wannan fanni, abu ne mai

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matuƙar ƙarfafawa. Haka nan ga duk sauran masu bincike ma.

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United for Freedom ba ta bar kowa yana tsare
a kurkuku ba; maimakon haka, tana tabbatar da

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cewa mutane sun sami adalci kuma an saki su.

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Matuƙar ba su aikata laifi ba.

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Idan ka faɗa shi haka, dole ne in ce, don
adalci, cewa muna ganin bangarori biyu.

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Ba wai kawai muna fafutuka ne don
hana rashin adalci ga mutane ba.

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Amma idan an yi wani abu cikin hikima da daidai, muna
tabbatar da hakan a sarari ba tare da wata shakka ba.

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Kuma shi ya sa yake da muhimmanci a gare ni in
faɗi abin da ke tafe. An yi aiki kan halin da

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Füllmich yake ciki. Kuma yanzu ana kula da shi da kyau.

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Na gani da kaina. Wannan shi ne karo na biyu da na je can.

16:15.981 --> 16:22.125
A karon farko, kafarsa ɗaya ta yi
nakasa. Watakila ya ji kunya da kansa.

16:22.125 --> 16:26.625
Ban tambaye shi ba. Amma na gan shi yana tafiya yana
nesa daga bayansa. Kuma a wannan karon na sake kallo.

16:26.625 --> 16:37.083
Yanzu ya shakata gaba ɗaya. Dole ne in ce, wannan
ne abin da na fahimta. Kuma haka ya yi hali ma.

16:37.083 --> 16:43.291
Ana masa mu'amala da kyau sosai.
Sai dai laifukan da ba bisa doka ba.

16:43.291 --> 16:49.026
Kuma dole ne in jaddada wannan. Kamar yadda na
bayyana, yana da hakkoki. Kuma ana takura wa

16:49.026 --> 16:52.510
waɗannan hakkoki. Kuma muna ɗaukar mataki kan haka.

16:52.510 --> 16:58.763
Waɗannan su ne batutuwan doka da za a iya
tattaunawa. Kuma muna ɗauka cewa za a yi hakan cikin hikima.

16:58.763 --> 17:04.250
Ana shimfiɗa hujjojin shari'a da sakin
layuka a kan tebur, kamar yadda ake cewa.

17:04.250 --> 17:09.129
Za mu tattauna, za mu yi mu'amala ta hira.
Ciki har da ofishin lauyan gwamnati da alkalai.

17:09.129 --> 17:15.823
Tare da bangaren kariya, tabbas. Zan iya
tsammani sosai cewa har yanzu akwai mafita a nan.

17:15.823 --> 17:23.370
Don haka ba za a bar shi a can yana
jiran har abada ko har zuwa ranar ƙarshe ba.

17:23.370 --> 17:29.811
Don haka, kamar yadda na ce, ba zan iya yin sharhi
kan hukuncin laifi da al'amuran laifi ba. Amma

17:29.811 --> 17:34.036
dangane da hakkin ɗan adam, akwai buƙatar ɗaukar mataki.

17:34.036 --> 17:44.901
Kyau. Eh, to, ina sha'awar sanin yadda shari'ar Füllmich za ta
ci gaba. Haka kuma yadda za ta samu damar zuwa ga fayilolin.

17:44.901 --> 17:51.883
Menene sakamakon zai kasance. Za mu ci gaba da kasancewa cikin
hulɗa, Mista Hummitzsch. Na gode ƙwarai da bayananka na yau.

17:51.883 --> 17:56.636
Ina kuma godiya ga Kla.TV saboda ba ni
wannan dama na kawo wannan ga hankalin jama'a.

17:56.636 --> 18:02.073
Don nuna cewa muna yin aiki mai matuƙar
kulawa da wahala a nan. Kuma tabbas ana jin mu. Na

18:02.073 --> 18:04.791
gode ƙwarai da gaske da tattaunawarku da mu.
