Interview with Pastor Chuck Baldwin: Trump, Blowback, and a Failed Foreign Policy

17.04.2022 | www.kla.tv/22287

Interview with Pastor Chuck Baldwin: Trump, Blowback, and a Failed Foreign Policy Today, what an honor to interview Pastor Chuck Baldwin. Dr. Baldwin is the pastor of Liberty Fellowship, in Kalispell, Montana. He has a youtube channel where you can watch his popular weekly sermons. He was a syndicated talk show host, he is an author, a columnist, a media personality, and he was the 2008 presidential nominee for the constitution party. He has an amazing biography which you can read on the about page on his website chuckbaldwinlive.com. Dan: Pastor Chuck Baldwin, thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Baldwin: I'm glad to do it. Thank you, Dan. Dan: Well, today's topic is Donald Trump. And if I may, I'd like to begin with a little anecdote, an experience of mine in the summer of 2020. I was invited to a party alongside a lake it was it was a bunch of Trump donors were going to be there. And at one point, I find myself lounging in the chairs out on the lawn, looking over the lake, and the man next to me, looks over at me and he says, you know, Dan, I just love President Trump. I can't think of one thing he's done wrong. I think he's just one of the best presidents we've ever had. And I was a little dumbfounded. I didn't quite know how to answer. And I wonder, Dr. Baldwin, if you could sort of give us a little elevator pitch. Let's say you had 10 Trump supporters around you wearing the Maga hats. And you just heard this, what would be your opening salvo? Baldwin: Well, I would ask them what they feel about the, the entire COVID narrative and everything that's come about as a result of that. The lockdowns, the loss of jobs, the loss of businesses, the harmful masking of little children in schools, ask about, you know, the people that died and been injured from the shots, ask about the mandates, etc, that have evolved over this. And the way that this has impacted the entire world the way that it's destroyed, the greatest economy in the history of the world here in the United States. The entire the entire narrative of COVID and say, Do you like that? Do you believe that's a good thing? Do you believe that all of this is constitutional that what all of these politicians have done? And the health boards have done throughout the country to wreak havoc on the world? Are re you really fine with that? If you're if you're good with that, and if they would respond that they are, then I would say within Trump's your man, no doubt about it. Because Trump is the single handed individual, the one man in the world that launched the COVID plandemic, on the world. It was his signature on the on the emergency order that authorized everything that we've experienced over the last two years relative to COVID. He in effect, when he signed that emergency order, he turned the presidency over to Anthony Fauci and you know, if you are good with that, if you think this has been a good thing for the world, has been a good thing for the United States, has been a good thing for freedom. If you think that what Canada has done to the truckers, and the way they have injured elderly people with their war horses, trampling through peaceful protesters, and if you're good with all that, then keep singing Trump's praises. But if you have any hesitance to any of that, if you pause to think what this has done, and what it continues to do to our not just our country with the world, then stop and think that it was Donald Trump that brought this to the world. It was Donald Trump alone, there is no other single individual that we can point to, to blame. Donald Trump is the man who brought the entire COVID narrative to the world. And when you talk about devastation, and death and destruction, economically, socially, medically, physically, morally, spiritually, this, in my opinion, the entire EU, excuse me, the entire plandemic is the greatest assault against the liberties in the constitution of the of the people of the United States, in the history of our country. And it's the greatest assault against the freedoms of the people of the free world. In the history of the world. There has never been a greater assault than this. And Donald Trump is the one man that's responsible for it. That might have been longer than two minutes. Dan: No, that is, that is a pretty good elevator pitch right there, Doctor. Yes, I was reading the Rapoport article that you referenced in one of your recent articles, and he says, Look, just the single fact that he, like you say he handed the presidency to Dr. Fauci, you really don't need to go beyond that even. And and I, I've seen, this puts this puts conservatives who still support Trump in a tough position, because they will, at this at the same time that they are condemning the COVID measures and everything you mentioned, they still hold on to their their love of Trump, and one of the last memes I saw was this. Well, okay. But let's be fair, he did...he is the father of Operation warp speed. And their weak defenses, but he wouldn't have mandated the jab, but I'm not even sure of that. Baldwin: Well, let's put it this way. Oh, one Trump grill in Trump Tower enforces the vaccine mandates. Now, this is his business, his private business, he owns it. He's the boss. Whatever he says goes. His word is law in concerning the policies of that restaurant, and if and and if he truly does not believe in mandates, as he says, Then why does his commercial enterprise, his business... Why does it enforce vaccine mandates? I think I think Donald Trump is a fraud. I believe that he is working the conservative Republican evangelical Christian constituency, to bring them in line with the establishment program, which let's face it right now, the the establishment program is the COVID narrative. And what's what's Trump doing? Here he, on the stump in 2022, trying to prepare for another run in 2024. And what's he doing? He's going around praising the vaccines, praising the jabs doing everything except saying they should be mandated. But what will it take? And when will trump decide to say that? An article I'm coming out with today? I'm, you know, the question, but I'm using an article that that was that was written here just recently by Alicia Green. And she asked the question, you know, when, when will trump come out in favor of the mandates? Because I'm almost 100% confident that he will. And and, will it be before he's elected? Or will it be after he's elected? The Trump keeps moving in the direction of, of tyranny. He keeps moving, and let's not forget that it was Donald Trump that gave these would-be tyrants around the country, the incentive to enact these red flag gun confiscation laws, it was it was Donald Trump, who was on national television at that roundtable. We all remember that. And he, you know, he said, that we need to take the guns first, and then go through due process later, Dan: Right Baldwin: That's his quote. And, you know, it didn't he doesn't even have the mental capacity to understand. If you take the guns first, sir. There is no due process. But in his mind, he doesn't think that way. Let's take the guns first; due process later. Well, that gave the motivation and the incentive for all these big government legislators around the country, Republican and Democrat, to begin enacting red flag gun confiscation laws, and they've done that. And since that time, 10s of 1000s of people have had their firearms removed from their homes, unlawfully, unconstitutionally, unjustly, police just showing up on the doorstep with with with no constitutional reason. And and at the point of guns, taking the firearm from innocent Americans, some have been killed by police in the process of doing that. That was Donald Trump. So you know, this is a man whose track record when it comes to liberty, when it comes to the rule of law and constitutional government. This is a man who can never be trusted. Dan: Right, right. So exactly. Moving away from color COVID Let's ask another question, did he accomplish anything worthy? Like, I think Trump was elected mainly on two issues, in my opinion, you can disagree if you like, one was immigration and one was our our foreign policy, especially our war policy. And I want to know if, can they defend him on this? did he accomplish anything worthy, and long lasting in immigration or foreign policy? Baldwin: Yeah, they can make excuses for him as to why he failed. And, you know, I think that's what they've been doing. And that's what they're still doing. Yes. It's amazing to me, the way they defend this man, and the way they do it, every one of them, every single one I've talked to, is what they say is, well, Trump really wants to do the right thing. He just listens to bad advisors. And, you know, they put the blame on the bad advisor. Okay, but the man who listens to the bad advisor is just as culpable as the man who gave the bad advice. But you know, that's a standard of truth that applies to everybody except Donald Trump. You know, he's all these bad advisors are giving him (bad information) and says it's not his fault. And that's the way they excuse him. And of course, you're right. No, I would agree with you as far as the motivation of the of the reason that people voted for him initially in 2016. But I think the other reason let's not forget this, the other reason that they voted for him is because Hillary Clinton was his opponent. I mean, I don't know, to be honest with you. I don't know if Trump could have been elected, if any other individual had been the opposing candidate. I'm not sure. But regardless of that, yeah, I think from from a political and philosophical point of view, those were the two main issues. Well, we know on immigration, you know, that it was a failed policy, and people are going to blame, you know, everybody else for why it didn't happen. The courts, etc. And I saw, I don't I mean, maybe maybe that's fair. Maybe it's not maybe it's exaggerated. Maybe it's not? I'm not sure. I think he intended to do well, on that issue. I didn't like some of the things he did in trying to accomplish it- the executive order that he that he passed, literally trying to give himself unlimited authority to take private property, etc, from landowners in in putting up a fence and all this kind of thing. But, yeah, so I think there's room for. Okay, there's room for doubt to say, All right, yeah, we can try to give him credit. He tried. He wasn't able to do it, because of the way that our system works. Which, by the way, I'm glad our system works the way it does, because they didn't, we'd really be in trouble. Our Constitutional Republic was designed to make it arduous and difficult for an executive to get things done. Because the opposite of that is a king and a monarch who just who rules the nation by his own his own word. And that's the last thing we want in this country. So I'll give him credit for that if they want to demand it. Okay. I think there's a question there. Foreign policy is another matter all together. Donald Trump, everybody says, Well, Donald Trump kept us out of war. Donald Trump, you know, honored his word in foreign policy, and that that is just, I can't believe the idiocy of that. Donald Trump dropped more bombs on more innocent people than any president before him, including GW Bush, during the war that he launched. Over in the Middle East. Think about the numbers of bombs. And, I've got the statistics for that in my columns that I've written in the past. But the he has dropped more bombs in his in one term, then, Barack Obama did, then GW Bush did, that than any president before him. Baldwin: To say that he was not a warmonger like other like other presidents is just flat false. In truth, he he killed more innocent people than the other presidents before him Democrat or Republican, Bush or Obama. So that's ridiculous. Is his political assassination of a general Sulemani? A foreign head of state. We're not at war with Iran. We've not declared When have we declared war on Iran? When do we declare war on any of these nations? We haven't. We fought all these wars, unjustly, unconstitutionally, immorally. And so General Soleimani was the man that was the most responsible for fighting the ISIS terrorists. In that part of the world, let's not forget that. If it wasn't for General Soleimani it's really likely that the ISIS forces would have been victorious, over there in that region. He's he almost single handedly his leadership, his his military prowess, etc, allowed the forces opposing ISIS, to contain them and eventually to defeat them. And let's not forget also while we're talking about ISIS, that it was our own Central Intelligence Agency in the Mossad that created ISIS. We were the one...we wanted to create a rebel force over there to disrupt the government of Syria, and, and Iran, but especially Syria, at that time, and that's why they were created. They were a disruptive force, a terrorist organization that we the West, Israel and the United States set up and then we get up to the world and we talk about how we're trying to fight ISIS and ISIS is responsible for terrorism in the United States. And, you know, our troops are over there because we're going to be fighting ISIS. Baloney! We weren't fighting ISIS. We were assisting ISIS, it was General Sulemani forces that were fighting ISIS, and they succeeded in in defeating those forces. And Donald Trump out of the clear blue on his own decided to assassinate this man, which I'm telling you, Dan, we still have not felt the the ramifications for that murder. This is still boiling over there in the Middle East. And we're gonna, we're gonna pay, we mark my words, we're gonna pay a price for that down the road. And his his entire foreign policy was one of appeasement to Israel. And we all, everything that we did over there in the Middle East, relative to the bombings relative to the surreptitious forces, you know, we got we got stationed over there in Syria, we're taking the oil fields, what what right, does the United States have to go into an autonomous sovereign state, Syria, and seize their, their oil production and their oil plants, etc? And that's exactly what we've done. What would we do if another nation tried to come in and go into the Gulf Coast and try to seize the the oil manufacturers in Texas and Louisiana, etc, what would the United States do, just sit back and do nothing? Well, we do it because we're the big bully on the block. And Syria doesn't have the military capacity to resist this. But the fact that we're doing it is against the moral laws of God against international law, against our own constitution. Everything that the Trump has done in the Middle East is the same thing that the presidents have been doing ever since GW Bush invaded that part of the world. Dan: Hmm. Well, with that, I think you've just answered where I was gonna try to lead you on before. And I was gonna say the defense of Trump here is Well, look, he didn't start a new war, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Baldwin : Yeah, and what's the difference between he say he hasn't started a new war, but he's extended the wars that were already started. What's the difference? Dan: What's the difference? Yeah. And continuing these wars and sanctions too, which, and sanctions which are kind of by definition of act of an act of war, are they not? Baldwin: They absolutely are an act of war, people don't realize what that means. And whenever ...when sanctions mean that you, you disrupt or prohibit or block a country's ability to interact commercially, Dan: to survive Baldwin: with the with the trade of goods, if you can stop and think of what it would be like for you not to be able to go to the store and get shampoo or soap; for women to not be able to go to the store and get the things that they need for good hygiene excetera. If you can think of what it's like to be able to not be able to go to the store and get milk for your for your baby, or you would not be able to find any kind of diapers. If you need any medicine, there's no medicine available. You know, you stop and think about what does sanction mean? we just throw that word around, and the American people have no concept of what it means to be on the receiving end of that. And we're talking about the starvation, the deliberate starvation, and malnutrition and lack of medicine, and slow deaths, people starving to death, or people dying of disease, etc, because they don't have access to these goods. And the reason they don't have access to these goods is because America has issued sanctions, which stop the flow of commercial goods in and out of those countries. So what it's doing- sanctions, t's not targeting the government, sanctions are targeting the innocent civilians of those countries. They're, they're forcing those people to go through unbearable hardship, even, you know, slow suffering and death as a tool, hoping that the people inside the country will rise up and coerce their government to do what America wants them to do. That's the strategy. It's it's punishing the innocent civilian populations of the country in order to try and manipulate a foreign government to do what, what's the United States wants them to do. It's horrific, it's horrible. If you can, if you could ever really see what it is. It doesn't really affect the ruling class, of the countries. The ruling class, the oligarchs, they're going to have medicine, they're going to have food, they're going to have wine, they're they're going to have, you know, comfort and water and all that kind of thing. You're not hurting them at all you what you're doing is you're torturing the average person, the little children, the women and babies and older people, and people that are vulnerable to disease and hunger and sickness and all these things. That's what you're doing. You're You're terrorizing them, you're torturing them in order to try to manipulate them to to move the government into a direction you want them to go. So So sanctions is cruel. It's inhumane, really. And, you know, it is an act of war. Dan: And as far as convincing the public to pressure the government if anything it brings the... it's an opportunity for the local tyrant, to get the populace on his side because of the... Yeah. Baldwin: Bingo. That's exactly what it does. It has exactly the opposite effect than what they're trying to do. If if they, as if they don't really know. Yeah, because the people know who the culprit is that's causing this. They know it's the United States. I mean, they're not stupid. They know that our country is the one that's that's blockading the ports, it's our country that's intercepting the, the ships that are bringing goods. It's our country that have put this, this this iron fence, so to speak, around their country, and has caused, you know, the mothers know, the reason that they're little babies are starving to death, because of the United States. The families know that the reason that the elderly people are dying a slow, painful death, because they can't get the medications and the nourishment is because of the United States.They all know this. So that doesn't cause them anger and bitterness against their own government. It causes them increased anger and bitterness against the United States. Dan: Yes, yes. And well, and even worse than sanctions, what if we are actively supporting war efforts by one of these tyrant nations against others? And I'm thinking the case of Yemen, and all the suffering going on there. Could you could you speak a little bit to who our allies are in the Middle East and has Trump...did Trump represent any sort of change from those policies? Baldwin: No, no change whatsoever. You know, this is the thing that, that it just irks me to no end. And, you know, when you, you read my columns and you hear me speak and so forth, you know, the passion I feel about this, but to try and communicate this to the average conservative Christian especially, is is very difficult. They, they have been so brainwashed by the false doctrines of Christian Zionism, popularized by the CI Scofield Reference Bible, that they cannot have, they do not and cannot have an objective viewpoint relative to the Middle East, because they have taught... they've been taught this this egregiously bad doctrine that the modern state of Israel, the Zionist state of Israel that was created 1948 is somehow or other a, a renewed resurrected Old Testament Israel that this is a, this is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. they misinterpret the promise to Abraham, etc. They apply all this to the Zionist state of Israel today. And they think this is biblical Israel. And so the whole concept you know what God will bless them that bless Israel this the way they interpret it, and curse them to curse Israel. And so because of this, it has warped the the entire philosophical debate. In fact, there is no debate as far as evangelical Christians are concerned. You know, this is a spiritual issue to them. This is a Bible issue to them. And because they have been taught this...this egregiously bad doctrine of the Scofield Reference Bible, which was financed by Zionists. And and was a tool of Zionists, a purposeful tool of Zionists to dupe the church into doing exactly what it's been doing for for most of the 20th century, and now into the 21st century. So so when you try and talk about any of these issues relative to the Middle East, from any kind of objective point of view, it's almost impossible because of that. But the bottom line is, is that Israel is not an ally of the United States, Israel will never be an ally of the United States. Israel is not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Israel is not the Israel of the Old Testament, there is no biblical promise to the Zionist state of Israel. There is no command of God for anyone or any country to bless this, this atheist, communist Marxist state of Israel, which is exactly what it is, and and the fact that they have been enacting most of the conflict in the Middle East, comes from from Tel Aviv, and the Mossad and the IDF when you look at the treatment that Israel has given to the, to the Palestinian people, and the torture and the literal (debasement) basement of human dignity, and you know, if, if this was any other country, in the world, other than Israel, there is no way that the world community would accept it, there's no way that the United States government would accept it. Because it's Israel, they're given a pass and everybody looks the other way. We, we promote a book in our in our online store at Chuck Baldwin live.com or libertyfellowshipmt.com, either one of those websites. And one of them is is called the ethnic cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe. Mr. Pappe is is not a Christian, as far as I know, he's an Israeli. Now he's a renowned historian, one of the one of the most renowned historians in the entire country. And he wrote a completely honest and objective historical analysis of how Israel became a state off of the blood and the murder and the mayhem and the rape and the pillage and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people in Palestine. And it's, it's an absolutely remarkable book. It's documented throughout one of the most well written, well researched books on the subject I have ever written (he means to say read, not written), if not the best. And when you read this, and you see the true history of that of that country, and you bring it up to date and realize that the things that are going on the Israel is the one that's stirring the pot militarily, Israel is the one that stirring the pot in terms of terrorism, Israel is the one that is constantly sending jet bombers into Lebanon, into Syria, into Iran into Iraq. Any of these foreign countries around there, Israel is the one that is is helping the United States- you brought up Yemen- to literally inflict, I don't know how to describe it. It's It's It's the worst kind of Holocaust. Maybe that would be a good word to describe what has been happening in Yemen over the last several years. And speaking of Donald Trump, Donald Trump was the one that actually escalated. If not, you say didn't start award maybe not officially but in a way he did. He was the one that started this assault against Yemen in an aggressive manner. And the millions of people that that have died and they're starving. It is it is a humanitarian crisis of exponential proportions like nothing since, since World War Two, there's there's been nothing to compare to the death and destruction that Israel and the United States, thanks to Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu, have inflicted upon the country and the people of Yemen. So when you put all that together, what what I'm trying to show you is that the narrative that we keep hearing, you know, that Israel is innocent, you know, victim, and it's all these, all these Arab neighbors are trying to, to wipe her off the map. And they're, they're the ones that she's just defending herself, that is propaganda. That is a bald faced lie. Israel is the aggressor. It has been since December of 1947. And it continues to inflict all kinds of carnage, death and destruction throughout that region of the world. With, you know, with no, with no accountability, and the United States is very much a part of that, you know, I'm a good friend of Ron Kukal, and several of the survivors of the USS Liberty attack. Baldwin: And, you know, we had a ceremony at our, at our fellowship here not too long ago, where we honored those men. I mean, we have that DVD online as well. And we tell the story about what happened, you know, and how that Israel attacked our USS Liberty ship, killing 34, wounding 70% of them and they tried to sink the ship. It didn't go down. And you know, and then the United States government under Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara, they covered it up, the US media covered up the Pentagon covered it up, admirals came to the sailors and said, You won't say a word about this, or you will lose your retirement benefits, you'll lose your rank, we may put you in jail, all kinds of threats of intimidation to try to keep them silent, didn't work. The crew members in the face of that kind of threats. They went ahead and they wrote the great book that we carry, “Remember the the Liberty”, and they told the story about what happened and how Israel attacked the ship tried to sink it using unmarked French Mirage jets, so they wouldn't know who the attacking nation was. And they did that, of course, to try and entice the United States into the so called Six Day War, when Israel was invading Egypt and surrounding nations. It wasn't the other way around. Israel was not invaded Israel was doing the invading, and they were wanting to blame Egypt on the attack, hoping that the United States would come into the war. But the ship didn't sink. And so they had survivors, they had witnesses they knew, you know, that knew the truth. And so that whole scenario was, was, you know, didn't work. So what they did to do, and then they had to cover it up. And so you ask your average, fellow friend, church person, Social Club member, whatever. Have you ever heard of the USS Liberty? And most of them have never heard of it? It's been a blanket, you know, deception on the part. But anyway, all this has been going on for all these years is my point. Dan: Yes, yes. Speaking of that cover up, an interesting thing happened to me. It was around 2000, maybe 99. I was out of the country. But I got word that the History Channel was going to feature a documentary called “dead in the water”. You've probably seen it. And it's all about the Liberty incident. And so I wasn't home, but I called my dad. I said, Hey, could you tape this for me? It's gonna be on the History Channel on Sunday, Sunday evening. 7pm channel nine? And he says, Yeah, sure, no problem. And I get a email from him a week later said they didn't broadcast it. Something happened. Baldwin: Yep. Yep. Yeah, Israel is the third rail of politics. It's the one subject that nobody can talk about. Nobody. I mean, look at what happened to Whoopi Goldberg. Can you imagine this? I mean, Whoopi Goldberg. It's hard to describe this, but what this shows is that nobody but nobody, but nobody can say anything, remotely, I mean, will be wouldn't even trying to be critical. She didn't really probably even realize what she was saying. And she certainly didn't mean it has to be anti Israel. I don't I don't really I've heard you know, heard the clip several times. And I just don't believe that's what she intended. But it was it was construed as a criticism of Israel. Boom. She's canceled for two weeks. So nobody in politics Republicans or Democrats, it doesn't matter. Nobody can say anything critical about Israel. Israel has the most wealthy, largest and powerful lobby organization in Washington DC. You could put all the other lobby groups together. And they would not equal the power and influence and wealth of the Israeli lobby, literally hundreds and hundreds. And I go into some of this in my messages on the Israel packages I preached. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of separate distinct independent organizations, all representing Israel, in the United States Congress, and government. And and nobody, nobody survives, if you criticize the State of Israel. That's how powerful the the Israeli lobby is in this country. Dan: Right. And you could say, even though we have the free speech in America to say something if we want, but you you, you must be concerned about this growing movement of banning anti-Israel speech, our heroes In the COVID fight, Governor Abbott from Texas and Governor DeSantis from Florida, along with Trump, well, Trump signed an executive order but these guys signed, I guess, into law, anti-semitism laws where you can't speak Baldwin: Exactly. Dan: You can't speak ill of Israel on a university campus or even a public high school, I think it is. Baldwin: Exactly right. And and they... also the same law, anti BDS (boycott, divestment, and sanctions) laws, which ban any entity in the state, individual business, corporation, whatever, from trading with any organization that is critical of Israel. So it's it's more than just speech. It's it's economics as well, that the I think it's 35, no, maybe 38. I think Governor Noem in South Dakota was the was the latest governor, to sign an anti BDS law into effect in that state, I think it was her and I think that was number 38. Which means again, as I said, if the state can no one in the state of the state of South Dakota, can do any trading economically or any business with any organization or individual who is supportive of trade sanctions or or just says, okay, you know, let's boycott Israel, because of the way they're treating the Palestinian people, things of that nature. So anybody who promotes that is is prohibited from doing business with anyone in the state. So it's more than free speech. Yeah, you're right. It is it on college campuses, etc. It is a crime in many states, to say anything negative about Israel. But it's more than that. It's also an economic bully club, that you cannot do business with anyone who suggests that maybe we might boycott Israel because of their horrendous persecution of the, of the Palestinians. So you see, it's it's more than just speech. I mean, it's, it's hardcore. And so people, people don't realize that the State of Israel has pretty much carte blanche as far as getting anything it wants out of Washington, DC, and controlling, not just the not just the debate, and the forums and so forth, the media, you know, get people on. I mean, you don't care who they are on, on the news channels. It could be Fox News, it could be MSNBC, it doesn't matter left or right, conservative or liberal. You don't say anything critical about Israel, or you lose your job. It's as simple as that. This is this is a lot more than free speech. This is dictation upon public policy in the United States. That's how powerful the Israeli lobby is in the United States. Dan: Right, right. I would like to circle back to something you mentioned, and you said that we have not. We have not experienced the blowback that is coming our way because of our failed foreign policy. And I would like to ask you as a pastor, do you think that in order to move forward and to get out of this damaging deadly foreign policy and counterproductive for our own interest foreign policy, does some sort of national reckoning have to take place like some sort of admission of what we've done, and and a national repentance? Baldwin: Well, history seems to suggest that it does. If you look back at the history of the world, and the way God overrode, and, and intervened on behalf of truth, and righteousness, justice, etc, you would have to think that, yes, America is not an exception to the rule. America is not greater than God. And we cannot defy the natural laws of God without suffering the consequences. I personally believe that we're already suffering the consequences of much of that just by what's happening right now in the United States. But I think that the part that you're alluding to here is the key issue. And that is, this is a spiritual issue, at its soul. It's a spiritual issue. It's not a political issue. It's really not an economic issue. It's a, it's a spiritual issue. The church has been duped. It has been duped into believing a very devilish lie. And that that lie has prompted the church to become cheerleaders for war, cheerleaders for destruction and death. You know, who are the ones whenever any saber rattling? Who you know, who are the ones that are cheering, you know, for conflict with Russia right now? It's the evangelical Christians. You know who, anytime any politician, Republican or Democrat, starts saber rattling against any nation. It's always the Evangelicals and the so called conservatives are the first ones to jump on the bandwagon. Yay, let's go to war. Yay, let's launch attacks. Yay, let's let's nuke the country, yay, let's kill people. It this, this entire mindset that has evolved from this, this false doctrine of Christian Zionism and the way that we have allowed our military forces to be used as political assassins for foreign governments, and the way that we have allowed the death and destruction that comes from our tax payer dollars, that comes from the bombs that our taxpayer dollars built; from the bullets that our taxpayer dollars bought; you know, the the death machines that our tax payer dollars, financed, and we seem happy about it. Now, I'm not talking about justifiable lawful self defense here, this this is not self defense. This is baldface aggression, you know, this, this is murder. There's no constitutional right for the United States to go to war with nations with whom we are not at war. There has not been a declaration of war since World War Two. Therefore, we have not fought a righteous constitutional war since World War Two. And so when Christians, based upon a false theology and a false theological system, are the movers and shakers of this war machine that we have launched against innocent people around the world, is God going to stand back as as a spectator and just say, well, that's okay. They're the United States. You know, they, you know, God almost killed King David. And I have a message on the online but he almost killed King David because, King David You know the man after God's own heart, you know, the sweet psalmist of Israel, etc, etc. We know God's love for David. God almost killed him because he was planning an unjust war against his neighbors. He was not being threatened by them. There was no defensive motivation to launch that war, it was purely aggressive in nature. And, and he was in the process of planning that war. And God came to him and would have killed him. David repented of his intentions and didn't do it. But in the meantime, I think the Lord took the lives of, I can't remember now how many it was 700 of the, of the men of Israel or whatever the number was. The point is, is that if God would, would judge to the point of taking David's life, King David, this, this man after God's own heart, this, you know, this choice, anointed king of God, if God would judge him, in that way, for his intentions, he didn't even get it off the ground, but he was intending to launch an aggressive war, an unjust war, that, do you think that God is going to just sit back and let America year after year, decade after decade, launch these unjust wars of aggression all around the world. It's estimated that that Americans and these American wars have...and this is a conservative figure, have killed a minimum of 2 million innocent, we're not talking about combatants. We're talking about innocent men, women and children, since the war on terror began with GW bush. 2 million. Dan: Right. Right. Baldwin: And how long will God let that go on? I think, Dan, you hit the real heart of the issue with that question. Dan: I had to chuckle a little when you mentioned, we haven't had a military adventure that was declared constitutionally since World War Two. And I saw an interesting headline this morning. And it says, Now that Putin has received his authorization to move forward, troops will be moving into the Donetsk region, something like that. And I paused for a second, I thought, wait a minute. This, this, this tyrant, this dictator, what are you talking about authorization? Our Presidents don't need any authorization. And then I looked into the article, and it was the I don't know what it was the Politburo or the the Russian legislature gave him authorization. I thought, How come that doesn't apply to us anymore? Baldwin: Right. Right now, yeah, no, we haven't fought an unjust war...haven't fought a just war. excuse me, since World War Two. And we continue to not only ignore our Constitution, but to ignore the international laws of humanity. And to ignore more importantly, the righteous laws of God. And so you know, like I said, there is going to be a price to be paid, I think we're already beginning to see it. But I, I shudder to think what we could be facing as a result of the rebellion of the church. And again, this is a spiritual issue. So that takes us back to the church. This isn't a political issue. This is not the fault of politicians. This is the fault of the church and the pastors and the church leaders who have abandoned the moral, spiritual, ethical laws of God in in very serious, very serious, sober ways. So, you know, again, judgment begins at the house of God. We're never going to have any kind of a national restoration until we have revival in the church. And we're never going to revival the church as long as Christians continues to believe in promote a lie. Dan: Yes. Well, Dr. Baldwin, we've gone over, but I really wanted to get one final word from you. Moving on to the other topic that's in the news. Now, the Canadian trucker situation. Now you're in northwest Montana, you share a border with Canada. What are your thoughts on the Canadian protest? And what lessons should be learned from the Canadian experience as the American convoy gets underway? Baldwin: Well, you know, I preached on this last Sunday, if you go to my website at LibertyfellowshipMT.com and the message from Sunday is archived online, and you can listen to that and I, I made some, some comments, very appropriate to that very question. You know, the Canadian truckers are doing and and, and they will continue this is not over, what the American pastor should have done two years ago. If the American pastors would have stood up two years ago, and said, We are not closing our churches, if they would have simply done that, two years ago, this this whole COVID calamity would have been dead in its tracks. It wouldn't have gone any further. It was the church that gave its approbation, you know, when you got people like Robert Jeffress, and you got people like Franklin Graham, that are out there, you know, promoting the, the narrative, and and the tyranny, and encouragin people to shut down the churches and you know, obey the government and blah, blah, blah. You know, it was it was that lack of leadership by the ministers and pastors of America, ultimately, is what created all of this, spiritually and morally.Trump did it legally with his executive order. But anyway, so So if, if they had done what the Canadian truckers did two years ago, this would have never happened. The Canadian truckers were, I think, some of the bravest men of the 21st century. And look at the prices, some of them are, are perhaps going to pay for what they've done. I mean, this showed the world that that Justin Trudeau is, is not only a communist Marxist, but he is a dictator, he's a tyrant. And, you know, there's a lot of people and I don't know if this is true or not, but a lot of people that believe that, that Justin is an illegitimate son of Fidel Castro. And if you see photos of Fidel Castro when he was Justin's age, they look like twins. So I, you know, I don't know if that's true or not. But one thing I do know is that the Trudeau family, for decades, has had a love affair with tyrants, and dictators. They were they were friends with Fidel Castro, there's no denying that. They were friends with many despots around the world, a very rich family that traveled the world globally. And, and if you want to say hobnobbed with these tyrants. So Justin Trudeau has Marxism, communism, in his blood, you know, from from the time that he was a baby, and when this came about, for him to enact that emergency declaration, which has never been enacted in the entire history of Canada, against his own people who were peacefully, lawfully protesting tyranny in Canada with these mandates, these truckers have to make a living, going back and forth across the border, right here in Montana, there's, of course, we're so close that that we receive and give a lot of goods back and forth across the border, I have truckers in my church. And, you know, they tell me what, what they're going through at this point. And so these truckers were literally fighting for their, for their livelihoods and for their existence. For example, one reporter asked a trucker, you know what, you know, what are you going to do? And he said, What happens if you have to go to jail, if you lose everything, he said, you know, without freedom, we don't have anything anyway. And he said, So, it doesn't matter if they threaten me with this or that, because we don't have freedom. And without freedom, we have nothing. And they know that is the spirit, of course, that built this country. That was the spirit of 1776, the spirit of Adams and Jefferson and Washington, etc. And it's been the spirit of America since its inception. And that's exactly what's being now challenged in the United States, and even more severely in Canada, and in Australia, and places like that. So these truckers were really the, as far as I'm concerned, they were the, you know, they were the Minutemen of 2022. They're the ones that put their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor on the line for freedom. And And believe me, this is not this is not ending just because they have they've got the traffic moving again smoothly, and they've kind of, you know, got confiscated the trucks and all that kind of thing. That doesn't mean that this thing is isn't growing and the people around Canada, I know the the leader of Alberta, I forget his name, he came out and said they're filing a lawsuit and they're, they're taking action as a province against Ottawa and the policies that they're enacting against the truckers etc. So you know, this is beginning to grow throughout Canada. I've read a recent poll just a couple days ago that said, you know that the the Canadian people are now beginning to turn against Trudeau's political party. And so you know, the the next elections in Canada could be very interesting and very surprising for Mr. Trudeau. I hope they are. But the point is, I think that these men are heroes. And whatever happens here in the States, I'm, I say, God bless them, you know, if they're gonna have a convoy from California to Washington, DC, whatever they're gonna do, I hope by the time that it gets to DC, that it's, you know, hundreds of 1000s of trucks and so forth and so on. You know, because the people have to stand up or their liberties are gone forever. And I think that we're at that crossroads where either we stand up now, or we lose our freedoms forever. Dan: Well, Pastor Baldwin, amen to that. We've gone over our time. I want to thank you for generously giving us your time. And I hope to talk to you again. Baldwin: Dan, it's been a pleasure as always, thank you, sir.

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Sources/Links: Interview