Corona Policy: Psycological warfare - do not give in!
Katy Pracher-Hilander is a consultant in business and politics. She reports on psychological warfare and shows us how we can prepare for the coming events and how we can give leverage to change.[continue reading]
License: Creative Commons License: Attribution CC BY
27.11.2021 | www.kla.tv/20738
Katy Pracher-Hilander is a consultant for business and politics. She specializes in the psychology of judgment and decision making and evidence-based work. She reports on psychological warfare and has a good message on how we can prepare ourselves for what is coming and give leverage to change. Here is the interview for you, broadcasted with the kind permission of the producers of Aufrecht Auf1. Hear for yourself what it takes in these current times to get a positive avalanche rolling. Aufrecht auf 1 (Straight up on 1): with Elsa Mittmanngruber Interview with Psychologist Dr. Pracher-Hilander: „We do not need the masses!“ Welcome, dear viewers, to a new edition of AUFRECHT AUF1. My guest today is social and business psychologist Katy Pracher-Hilander. She was already in my studio a few weeks ago and has been the “number 1” on Auf1 ever since then. Numerous viewers asked us for a continuation of this exciting interview and we are happy to comply. Katy Pracher-Hilander is a consultant in business and politics and specializes in evidence-based work and the psychology of judgment and decision making. Welcome Dr. Pracher-Hilander. K. Pracher-Hilander: Hello Mrs. Mittmannsgruber. Thank you for the invitation. E. Mittmannsgruber: In our last conversation, you spoke of psychological warfare. Where are we now, have we already lost the war? K. Pracher-Hilander: No, but I must say that from a psychological point of view, the real war has not yet even really started. So, the real war is yet to come. Right now we have something like the calm before the storm. People have been given something like a break now by the government, so that they can collect themselves a bit, forget a bit, let off some steam or forget that they were a bit angry or tense, so that they can start up again in the fall with the full machinery. In other words, we’ve now actually had small battles, but the actual war by the politcal administration against the people, that will still be ahead of us. E. Mittmannsgruber: How can this be a recovery right now? We still have to wear masks and test ourselves. That's not really recovery. But it seems to be perceived that way by most people. K. Pracher-Hilander: Yes, exactly compared to what we’ve already gone through, with lockdowns and today this, tomorrow that and nobody knew what was going on. But now people are still walking around, some with mask, some without, some FFP2, some something else, another rag. Then, we know that they were actually already completely shaken up and no one had any orientation - running around completely disoriented . And now we have a small phase, where relatively little information is being thrown out to us by the politicians. Now they can collect themselves again a little bit and that's just the supposed rest - the calm before the storm, that we're being granted right now, yes graciously granted. But that should be taken with a grain of salt. It's not like that at all. It’s true, now would be a good time to actually take a step back, in the sense of gathering strength, to recover a bit, but with the knowledge that now once again something is coming that will probably dwarf the other things that have been going on in the program so far. And if you know this in advance, then you can of course approach it completely differently, - it doesn't completely take you by surprise. You can prepare for it and have it in the back of your mind that this Fall, for example, we’ll, again be facing a massive load. E. Mittmannsgruber: But have we already become so accustomed to the measures, like masks or tests, that this bothers us too little? K. Pracher-Hilander: Absolutely! That's the fascinating thing, from a psychological point of view. People are already - and, we know this from animals, when they are locked up, when they have been locked up long enough and then the cage door is opened; where everyone would then expect, hey, it’s happy now, the animal is happy, relieved,that it’s allowed out , but, instead then they are scared and don't come out. The same thing is happening now with people. They were trained more or less for days or weeks not to go out, only to do what is ordered, or allowed, yes, including wearing a mask. And if we now say, "Okay, you may now take the mask off again." Or, "You're allowed to move semi-normally again now," you just see how many have a hard time with that and when asked, "Hey, why are you doing that now? Here and here, the regulation is now no longer valid at all." (You get the answer), "Yeah, I feel better doing it." So they already got used to it. So the habit effect happened very quickly and it's very clear that this was part of the psychological warfare. People are already broken. They already take things that are absolutely irrational and abnormal as something completely normal. And what was normal before is now absolutely irrational and abnormal in their eyes. Yes, so to walk around without a mask, that no longer corresponds to the normal attitude in life at all. Everything has completely switched to the opposite direction, but that's part of psychological warfare, that's part of it. E. Mittmannsgruber: That means that this can be built up on wonderfully in the Fall. We are already on a completely different level, where politics can start up again. K. Pracher-Hilander: Absolutely - exactly! That means that they now have the people, the masses already there, ready to go - as you said - where they want them to be. So, we have to expect - that's what I meant by that, we must expect that in the Fall even more agitation against unvaccinated people, visible attack campaigns, will be started here. I mean, they are already there all the time anyway, you just have to listen carefully. Even if they are always formulated in front by politicians as appeasing and as solidarity with others etc., so without pointing the finger directly at the unvaccinated, but in reality the language, everything runs towards that, the rhetoric that indirectly the unvaccinated are seen as the bad guys. At the latest , this Fall, September, October we will have the scenario that once again statistics are being tinkered with. Yes, we know that. We know that the statistics are twisted and distorted and manipulated. And then they say, "Yes, we now have the unvaccinated to thank for that." So employees have to prepare themselves for being mobbed by colleagues, for being seen more or less already as messengers of death, carrying around the killer virus, and that will be a very, very difficult time for very,, many, also for students. So a lot of students will have a massive problem in the Fall - their parents too, but we have to get through this. We have to get through it! That is, to face this, it will come, but please do not give in! Otherwise we give in to this psychological terror and one must not give in to psychological terror. Psychological warfare is not a trifle! This is not a trivial thing. And for me as a psychologist this is absolutely criminal behavior, which is shown here, by politicians, by the henchmen and by the mass media. Absolutely criminal behavior! E. Mittmannsgruber: How is it possible that this can so easily be done - that the masses, are directed to and given a scapegoat - and then this witch hunt is so easily triggered? I recently read an article that said: "The pandemic of the unvaccinated", so it's already quite clear - it's already quite clearly going in this direction and it can be assumed that the masses will also join in this "scapegoat hunt". What is the psychological effect? Why is it so easy? K. Pracher-Hilander: Yes, we know that from history. Why was it so easy a few decades ago? The best buddy, the neighbor over-night turned into the enemy. Now can we also ask ourselves, why is this? How is that possible? And we always said, this will never happen to us again. It's happening again right now, everyone is just going along with it, so the masses are just going along with it. It's like this: when you suggest a danger to people, they totally respond to this. And in this case, it's an invisible danger. In the past, at least the danger had a face, a last name and a first name, a resumé. Now we are dealing with a danger that you can't even see. That is, something that I can't see, I can very easily sell to the people. It is just as invisible as nuclear power, and we already know through various experiences that this brings dangers with it. Here we are dealing with a source of danger that is invisible to the masses, a completely new situation, and that of course makes it an excellent sales ploy. Okay we have a virus, most people don't even know how a virus is equipped; does it have a nucleus? No - blah, blah, blah - but we know the virus is dangerous and the virus will kill us all and that is the danger. So, that means, if you are a virus carrier now, you are so to speak symbolic for the virus, and so I have to fight you and when I fight you, I fight my enemy the virus at the same time. Then you instantly at that moment, become an object. Then you are simply my enemy and no longer the nice friend and buddy that I knew, or my work colleague whom I’ve gotten along well with for ten years. Overnight, you are just a virus carrier. This is something that is absolutely perfidiously done, and as a social psychologist I can de facto say: The psychological handwriting can be read. It is crystal clear that psychologists are at work here, advising politicians and PR agencies and all those who are involved here on how they can use psychological knowledge against people. That's not what science is made for. And that's why I'm loud, because I have a duty to protectively stand in front of science. That's not what 70, 80 years of psychological research is made for. It is abused. Yes, and this is the reason, I can only say that what is going on here is very, very dirty. It’s important that people be on their guard and be aware that they are being absolutely manipulated and directed. And they don't realize it. That's the tragic thing. E. Mittmannsgruber: Is there anything we can do to make them notice? K. Pracher-Hilander: The question is, do the masses have to notice? From a psychological point of view, I have to say that it’s not at all necessary for the masses to notice what is going on. I think I mentioned last time - concerning legal psychology - that we know that in juries and courts, a single person who thinks differently is enough to turn the other twelve. It is similar in a large population. A relatively small percentage is enough to carry the other masses along. So, as a rule of thumb, we can probably talk about 10 percent, which is necessary or sufficient to actually get a countermovement rolling in such a way that the rest is carried along - the other 90 percent. The good news is, we definitely have that already - We’re easily more than this 10 percent. We are much, much more, if you now - well I strongly assume, also the embellished figures, on how many are already vaccinated in Austria. I wouldn't bet a cent that the figures are correct. Even if we take them and say, thumb by pi, 50 percent may have been vaccinated. Then 50 percent are still not vaccinated. In other words, the 10 percent that we need, we have five times. So I would say we don't need the masses. We don't need to pick them up at all and address them and focus on them. It would be much more important for us ourselves that we get this, understand - that this "aha" effect sets in for us, that we are enough anyway, we have it in our hands. We already have the lever in our hands all the time, but we were not even aware of it. In fact, we are not even aware that we have the lever in our hands. I.e., from this point of view, we can bring about many things overnight. E. Mittmannsgruber: And then how do we pull the lever? K. Pracher-Hilander: The first thing, of course, is to remain steadfast, as difficult as it is. We have to remain steadfast, keep in mind - worst-cast scenarios. What can actually happen at the end of the day - what is the worst that can happen to me? And put that in comparison with what will happen if we do nothing about it. And then it will be clear to everyone, we have to do something. The worst-cast scenario can never be as bad as the reality if we do nothing. Take leadership roles - wherever possible, be strong on the outside. People take their cues from strong people. People need orientation, which is why it has been so important for politicians to make them disoriented. That is also part of psychological warfare. So this means, to give people orientation, clues and, above all, to show them that we are a group. We are very group-oriented beings. If the masses now believe they have to attach themselves to these mask wearers, because there they have a peer group, so to speak, a group, then we make them aware: there is also another group. We accept you into our family and then you are strengthened from the front, from behind, to the left and the right. That's how we can grow. That's how you can get another avalanche rolling. E. Mittmannsgruber: I think that is the reason why one so often has the feeling that there are not so many people who think just like oneself - or are just as critical, because they are not so loud or noticeable, or have no idea what they can or should do about it. K. Pracher-Hilander: That's why networking is so important. Doing lots and lots of networking. There are so many, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands throughout Germany and the world, millions of great people who are doing something. The problem is that everyone does it in their own field of activity and in their own small circle, and they don't manage to network with each other. And we just know from history, we can learn so much from history, French revolution. Whenever there was a peasant uprising - there and a peasant uprising there, everything was trampled down. Only then, when someone stood up and coordinated and networked, did the authorities get a problem, yes, then it really got wind in the sails. This means networking, even more networking, coordinating, learning about each other. That makes psychological security, if one knows - realizes also , how many we actually are. Because right now we only have the "mask" symbol. That is, these followers who are loyal to the government, they know through this symbolic feature how big, how broad their mass movement is, right? And the other side has a hard time, because there are many who don't go with the flow, but outwardly have to wear this symbol from time to time. This means that many of us disappear into the masses, and we don't see that. That means we have to make ourselves visible for each other, network and, yes, take on leadership roles, be strong on both a small and a large scale. And that bears fruit. E. Mittmannsgruber: Are there also special key persons who would have a particular effect on us now? K. Pracher-Hilander: Yes, doctors. Doctors have always had a special position in society. I'll say a very respected key role until 2020, somewhat tarnished since 2020. Addressing physicians, yes. That means that it is very, very important that first of all doctors become aware of their ethical and moral duty; but those who actually know this, that what is happening is just not okay. They have to have the courage to stand up and say: This is as far as it goes and no further! That is very, very important. We need doctors who protect the people because they have this status of "God in white," and the word "God" already says: I'm listening. That is, if doctors would start to open their mouths - what my God tells me is true - then the masses would also change their minds. But as long as they remain silent and do nothing, it's a problem. That's why I can only advise everyone, when you talk to a doctor, on whatever subject - riddles them with questions! Riddle them: "What studies are there?" "What are you referring to?" "Where is your source of information?" Go on asking questions until they simply can't take it anymore, because the answers don't exist. So what they refer to are a few scraps of paper that even non-medical people can kick to the ground without looking. Yes, I read a lot of papers, and I'm not a doctor, but I know they don't deliver what the politicians promise us. So riddle them with questions. And there are also lawyers who already have forms prepared, that one is so to speak ready, even if the subject of vaccination is on the table, so you can point this out to them and say: "Sign this"? Exactly. And that's when a lot of people back out, because they're confronted with the fact that they're on the wrong track. So we do everything possible in terms of psychology. And that's psychological nudging, right? That is, giving the choice, giving my vis-à-vis the choice between bad and right, and I think most people will then decide for the right thing at the end of the day. E. Mittmannsgruber: But now doctors would have had enough opportunity already to inform themselves. Why do I have to tease that out of them, so to speak? K. Pracher-Hilander: It is paradoxical, so some quite banal things are lack of time. It sounds insanely trivial now, but it's lack of time. I would like to focus on topics such as the fact that it is not part of their training to really understand scientific papers in the way they need to understand them. Statistics catastrophic, yes, the understanding of statistical numbers, we know that also from psychological research, there is just a shortcoming there, but very interesting aspects are, the knowledge of what I am. When I'm a doctor, I already somehow have it in my head that I'm already so good, I already know everything, I can already do so much that I don't even need to question critically. That means I am error-free. And that's a problem that can also be measured, and we also know from studies that doctors whose parents are not doctors themselves, for example, think more critically, I would say more disparagingly, about their own parents. That is, one is already such a slight overachiever and sees oneself also already in this god role. And of course that does something to one's own ability to reflect, but also to admit guilt. That means that this is a hurdle that they simply have to overcome, or that we have to be aware of, that such things are not known to the masses, but actually exist psychologically. And that's one of the reasons why they keep their mouths shut and many keep silent. Of course then also such things as responsibility diffusion, so these are the old things that I say again and again in interviews. So to speak: there are so many of us, the other one should start, so also these things. There are some hurdles, yes. E. Mittmannsgruber: It is not only the physicians who are silent, but also, as we have just discussed, most of the population, who probably think critically are silent. Is there a reason why we are particularly inactive, why the protests are now very limited? K. Pracher-Hilander: Yes, exactly. The usual suspect things from psychology that we know is dissonance reduction. That is, I know I'm doing something that's not right, but I would like to belong, yes, this norm behavior, I don't want to be excluded, all these things. Also responsibility diffusion, which is the case with doctors. These standard, ordinary banalities, we already know them. A very interesting new aspect, which I don't think I've communicated yet, is the culture variable. So, we actually have a key point here. We have a very culture-specific bias. It's practically a part of our genetics, so to speak, how a nation ticks. We know, for example, that in France the yellow vests are taking to the streets. In Italy, mothers stand in front of their children and say, “over my dead body”. That's not the case here. So, the children are quite willingly made available for studies here. This cultural aspect is very interesting. We know, for example, that Austria and Germany are seen as standards worldwide in what we do, in our work behavior and in production, yes. So, "Made in Germany" or "Made in Austria," that's really something. You know that people work accurately, very, very meticulously. But what we also know is that Germany and Austria differ, for example, in that the Austrian is very comfortable - focused on comfort. We know that from cultural comparisons in the studies. That is, we work very accurately at something, do our thing very well, but in between relatively stress-free, yes, stress-free. We know ithis from measurements of average walking speed. Yes. These are field studies that are carried out worldwide. A lot of nations were looked at, and Austria is relatively far ahead, so we are relatively limber when walking, lithe, accurate, i.e., it takes a very long time before we wear out. So we are very, very perseverent, and that is of course a bit of a problem in this situation, because when do the hat strings break? So, when is this point reached? The Germans don't have this extreme slowness like we do, but they are more obedient. That is their drawback. And from these cultural comparison studies, we can see a great deal and draw conclusions, but also make predictions: How will the whole thing develop? And all I can say is, people, get going! So, even cultural genetics cannot be so to speak at the very top in determining how we will stand in the future. And one thing is - and this also applies to physicians or also to each of us - and is also a problem ... but there is a solution for it... and that is If we have an attitude, a stance, and our behavior does not correspond to the attitude, that is, we are now forced as a doctor, to do this and that, but we know it is not my attitude, then over time my behavior becomes my actual attitude. We then also believe what we say and do. This means that, in principle, politicians and others in positions of responsibility believe their own lies over time. And if you don't interfere, that's the way it stays. But there are ways to interfere externally. And that's the task, and one of these mechanisms is what I've just mentioned, to address the doctors. That's exactly what it is to get in there, so that the attitude and behavior and what you do is not actually perceived by these people at the end of the day, but that you shake them up, so to speak, by making a cut. This can be done from the outside and in this respect there is a lot to do and everyone can do something. So you can see from this example, simply rushing in from the outside so that the lie doesn't become the truth with the vis-à-vis. That is simply the way it is empirically. That's how people tick, that's the psychology of people, and the more we know about psychology, the more we can... know how we can proceed. So in that respect, I can only advise everybody to buy some psychology textbooks as well. There are some that are written in an insanely relaxed and funny way, that are for everybody, not just psychology students, and take a book from social psychology and read it. And then there are also very very good examples that I can tell, for example, my circle of friends and acquaintances, in a very casual way. These are also possibilities, I can copy something out of these. These are small tools that help on a small scale, but of course they also help the entire movement. E. Mittmannsgruber: As you have described it, it is clearly a race against time. And on the one hand you say that we acquire the truths or the false truths over time, and on the other hand you say that it takes a very long time until the hat string breaks and until we have had enough. I know a lot of critics of this Corona policy who say: "Well, let's wait and see,.... When... If then the vaccination mandates for children come...that's what I heard a few months ago. Now it’s: If then mandatory vaccination comes... It is always like this... And then it is: “yes, if then the whole side effects of the vaccinations become known”... Basically, it's all a case of waiting until things get so bad that everyone finally has enough. How do you see this? Do we have such a long time or will that happen at all? K. Pracher-Hilander: If politicians and governments continue the Corona policy like this, and that's what it will do de facto, it will be like this: that people - everything - will all still be controlled in such a way that people will not recognize the correlation. That is, they won't be able to correlate the consequences of vaccine side effects with the correlation of pending death numbers because everything will happen time-shifted and so forth. That is, if we wait for that to happen, then we might be relatively old by the time it rings a bell somewhere in there. That is indeed a problem, but as I said, we don't have to wait and bet on the broad masses. We have to realize, there are already so many of us, that if we want the whole thing to falter tomorrow, we can throw sand in the gears. And one thing is clear: There are very, very clear signs that the politicians are very shaky. They know that they are skating on thin ice and that the whole thing could easily topple over if a countermovement becomes too strong. And that's why they will pick up speed in September/October, October at the latest, in order to roll it all out once again. Because they know very well that they are walking on very, very thin ice, that it could crack at any time. It's up to us to decide when it will crack. It could be tonight, it could be next Monday. It's actually up to us, we can do it anytime we want. We just have to want to, organize and want to. And what you said about vaccinations for children, also in my environment they said: “But, when the children are vaccinated”. And I said, “No! People, I am a psychologist. You will see that nothing great will happen in our society. The masses will bow to this and the dissonance theory will take effect with the parents, namely, they will talk themselves in to it. That also means that all those who are now saying, “Over my dead body!”, will slowly be worn down and say: “I wanted Maxi to be together with his friend Felix, yes, and I didn't want to do that to them - blah, blah, blah”. That means they'll - they’ll buckle and talk themselves into it, so that they can put up with themselves at all. What I see as criminal, yes, absolutely, is, for example, what comes from a health minister who suggests to children to get vaccinated. And that is absolutely unethical. So, it is enough to see in a course how, for example, interrogations are conducted in the legal setting. One must not suggest, yes! One should not suggest - he suggests. Many suggest, he was not the only one. But especially as a minister of health and a doctor, I must not suggest. Do not tell children suggestively - seduce them. This is absolutely despicable and from my point of view as a psychologist - as I said before - absolutely criminal and unacceptable behavior. The media must finally start to end the spreading of these lies, tales and this propaganda. This has to come to an end. And if every single journalist puts down the pencil and says, I'm not doing this anymore! I'm not writing this! If every doctor says, I'm not going along with this! If every nurse says, I'm not going along with this! Then the system has a problem - and a massive one at that. And that is exactly what everyone is afraid of. That is, just do it! E. Mittmannsgruber: You yourself are doing a lot and are in the middle of a new project. How is that coming along? K. Pracher-Hilander: Yes, thank you for asking. I mentioned it briefly last time. I founded the association "Psychology for Democracy". That means absolutely applied psychology and evidence knowledge from psychology accessible to everyone. And it's very interesting for lawyers, who now have access to input here, who also call us every day to ask to what extent we could support their arguments with psychological input. Last time I gave the example of loss of control, what it does to elderly people, that it really can be used as a killing weapon, so to speak, because we simply psychologically bring people to a point where they no longer want to go on. That is, we gather these inputs, record them, and pass them on to the lawyers, and we do it globally. It's a global project. It's still in its infancy now, of course, but very exciting, that is, the response, the feedback is very, very positive. Although we don't have any name recognition at all yet, things are already happening. And at this point I would like to thank the sponsors and donors. So I am really extremely touched every time I see that people see hope here and support the association - support psychology. We are doing wonderful work here, I think, very, very grounded work and it will bear fruit. And I am a psychologist with heart and blood and of course I can now have a wonderful romp and rummage around here and I also have great people who support me, who offer me their help. And we are now in the process of putting together a team of six to eight. So some we already have and - very, very wonderful. I'm very pleased that this is working so well and that I was allowed to publicize it here. E. Mittmannsgruber: Very good. Yes, then I wish you continued success and thank you for the exciting interview. K. Pracher-Hilander: Thank you for the invitation.